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jmhanvey On October 29, 2004




Little Rock, Arkansas
#31New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 18:52:26
I have to hurry to class, but I just wanted to comment on Sin's thoughts too. I am first of all a firm beleiver in that you can;'t lose your salvation, so Sin if you are truly saved then I am happy for you...
Secondly...I know so many people who fall away cvause some christian lets them down. All I can say is this...as much as people would not like to think it, christians are human too, I found that out allt too well for myself this past week. I fell pretty hard.
My old church went through so many youth leaders, and I loved them all....it was a wrenching experience to see each one go cause of what Panetti termed church politics.
But I realize this...we don't follow the church, we follow God, He's the only infallible thing in this world, anyone else you put yur faith in will let you down. Put your faith in God, and love others, that's all you can do.
I hope that helps in some small way.
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#32New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 19:25:17
Wow, this is turning into a heavy thread. Right where I fit in.

I was born into an interesting mix of bloodlines. My mother's side was a solid legacy of chuch elders and ministers, my father's ancestory deeply rooted in the criminal underground. That makes me somewhat of a mixed breed oddity I suppose. I can always feel the shadows of my forefathers creeping inches behind me, always reminding...

My father was murdered before I was old enough to even identify him, the concept of an earthly father is 100% foreign to me. My mother played both roles amazingly and raised me with my grandmother's help. I grew up a Christian from day one...though I was ignorant of it all. I explain to people that prior to my finding true salvation, I was merely religious (this is behind what I said earlier when I told you I hate being called merely religious). I only learned what I was taught at home though; we didn't attend a church until I was about 16.

Then things changed dramatically. I quickly became friends with the minister at our church. (Aside: they fired this minister first, brought in another guy whom I became even closer with, fired him, and so here I am today having left that church.) He taught me what real Christianity was beyond the religion, and my eyes were opened. I was baptized shortly after. I still didn't quite, completely get it though, until late in 1996.

My grandfather died, but not before losing his mind, and I got to watch him deteriorate into death over about a week's time, one of the hardest things I ever experienced. That was my final push into the arms of Jesus. You see, he was very bitter towards Christianity because of the "church people" hypocrits that had scarred him. He also was an alcoholic who only quit after and because I was born. He died, slowly, because of what it did to his liver, plus the quacks (excuses for "doctors") that screwed up his mind.

I knew he didn't have a firm belief in God, but I was a fresh Christian, and it was his problem. I did nothing to reach him, and he died. It was over his gravestone I vowed I would never simply let someone slip through my fingertips ever again. So my faith was completed in that I realized my faith wasn't just about saving me, it was about sharing my salvation with the world, many of whom don't realize how real and readily available it truly is, thanks in part to the "church people".

As my faith matured, I sought to understand the truth more. I began research, trying to understand other faiths, atheism, and agnosticism. I aspired to toss away any biases I had and find the truth in it's pure entirety, wherever that would lead me, and led me it did. My life's...unusual...experiences in combination with research proved to me once and for all that I was on the right track. I'll share more of what I learned with you in later posts. But the questions you have to answer first are 1) Is there a God? and 2) Which one is He, or are there options?

Furthermore, I have seen and felt true evil, and I have heard it's calling to be embraced; I have felt the intensity of its temptation. I have seen a glimpse of what I could be were I to turn to that side, and it has fordified me into being, until the day I die, a relentless force against it.

In the end, those who truly, sincerely, and openly seek the truth will find it.
jmhanvey On October 29, 2004




Little Rock, Arkansas
#33New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 19:51:09
that is a very powerful testimony there man...I am proud to call you brother. I hope we can find time to meet sometime and put a face to words. I can see a lot of wisdom in you.
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#34New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 19:53:16
Thanks, I appreciate it. We may have already met at some point...I've been involved with Metro for the past few years, up until this last year. Thanks to my co-op job putting me at work during Power Lunches and my living in Bryant making it kinda hard to drive from LR to Bryant then back to LR for Bible study groups, I'm not involved anymore. I do miss it!
theflamingredhead On June 27, 2004




#35New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 19:59:22
@"jmhanvey" Said
I have to hurry to class, but I just wanted to comment on Sin's thoughts too. I am first of all a firm beleiver in that you can;'t lose your salvation, so Sin if you are truly saved then I am happy for you...
quote]


I hate to pull this quote totally (sorry jm) out of context, but OMG how funny!!!!!!!
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#36New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 20:08:47
Ya know, Sin, you are our big monkeywrench in these forums. All we have to do is proclaim "I love Sin!" then everybody gets confused about us!

Uh-oh! I said "us" again! *slaps hand*
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#37New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 20:33:15
What I said about my father was true. He had a heart attack. He was tough and mean and I had the same horrible childhood everyone has, only my father was there. Except for the time he spent in jail. We all have such sad I got beat stories. I was there. I am still sad, years later.
I tell you this though, if he isn't in heaven I don't give a damn about going there.
ashley_b On April 29, 2004




#38New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 20:43:01
I used to think not many people went thru the same crap with their families. Now I see there is more suffering people out there than I thought. To all who have been thru very difficult childhoods (or even to the ones who still struggle with families and such up to this day), I wish I could take it away, but I can't...so I would like to say that ya'll are amazing people for getting even as far as you have. It takes real strength to not give up, especially on yourself.
jeoin On November 12, 2004




#39New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 20:53:34
thank you.
jmhanvey On October 29, 2004




Little Rock, Arkansas
#40New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 21:04:05
And honestly I couldn'ta done it without God...they say Christianity is a crutch, and you know what. I have absolutely no problem with admitting that I'm a weak person and limp through life unless I have God to hold me up, and even sometimes like that Footprints poem goes...carry me.
He sure is carrying me right now....I feel at my weakest these days.

also Panetti, I'm pretty sure I haven't met ya, cause I started going to Metro just this year since this is my first year...but hey maybe God'll give you some breathing room and you can start coming to Bible Studies again...all the info for them is on the Community thread if anyone's interested.
ashley_b On April 29, 2004




#41New Post! Apr 02, 2004 @ 22:00:05
I meant what I said, Jeoin, you and everyone else who has managed to pull thru such difficult times are very, very strong individuals, and I hope you realize it. Justin, I wish I had something that could help hold me up and carry me thru hard times, but really the only thing I have is hope and determination. I carry myself. I'm going thru another difficult time period, but I know I will pull thru this one as well. Yes, I could look to god and use christianity, but unfortunately, it really is Not that simple for me. This is mainly because I haven't been a believer for years, and so I can't just up and adopt those beliefs. I'm sure I will eventually get there, but right now is not my time. Also, I'm sure part of the reason it's so hard for me to believe is the fact that I have believed in so many people thru life that in the end hurt me worse than I ever dreamed. That makes it even more difficult to believe in someone who I can't see, or feel.

Like I said, I'm sure one day I will find belief in god, but until then, I will at least keep believing in myself.
sin_tastes_like_rainbows On September 07, 2005




#42New Post! Apr 03, 2004 @ 03:10:12
Quote:
Ya know, Sin, you are our big monkeywrench in these forums. All we have to do is proclaim "I love Sin!" then everybody gets confused about us!

Uh-oh! I said "us" again! *slaps hand*


I love sin too. It's healthy. Adore me, pls.
jmhanvey On October 29, 2004




Little Rock, Arkansas
#43New Post! Apr 03, 2004 @ 03:16:03
what exactly does a rainbow taste like....i would think it's taste like dead air...well scientifically speaking at least...
sin_tastes_like_rainbows On September 07, 2005




#44New Post! Apr 03, 2004 @ 03:18:07
Quote:
Justin, I wish I had something that could help hold me up and carry me thru hard times, but really the only thing I have is hope and determination. I carry myself. I'm going thru another difficult time period, but I know I will pull thru this one as well. Yes, I could look to god and use christianity, but unfortunately, it really is Not that simple for me.


Even when I wasn't believing in much, I'd read Footprints in the Sand..and it'd actually make me feel better. So I will post it for everyone to read and remember.

One night I dreamed I was walking
Along the beach with the Lord.

Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.

Sometimes there were two sets of footprints.
Other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed that
During the low periods of my life when I was

Suffering from anguish, sorrow, or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints,

So I said to the Lord, "You promised me,
Lord, that if I followed You,
You would walk with me always.

But I noticed that during the most trying periods
Of my life there have only been
One set of prints in the sand.

Why, When I have needed You most,
You have not been there for me?"

The Lord replied,
"The times when you have seen only one set of footprints
Is when I carried you."
panetti On February 17, 2005




Little Rock, Arkansas
#45New Post! Apr 03, 2004 @ 03:48:04
Hanvey hits it on the nail -- my faith isn't my crutch, it's more like my wheelchair! I wouldn't have gotten as far as I have without my faith either, and I'd likely be a very dark individual, if even still breathing for that matter.

But I don't tell my story for it to be a sob story as I think from what I'm reading of Jeoin's response that it evidently appears to be. All it is is the reason I am who I am, and that's it. I agree with Ashley though, everyone here seems pretty strong, including my friend Jeoin here. And by the way, it's really hard to remember how to spell "Jeoin". Three vowels in a row is just too much. You should have an easy to spell and remember name, like...uh...mine...Nevermind...

So I'll pick up where I left off on my story...

Like I said previously, I did a lot of research to learn more about my beliefs. I think it's very important to believe what you believe because you truly believe it (that almost makes no sense!). In other words, I don't believe because "it's my family's religion" or "I like it best" or "I'm afraid of dying".

Everyone has their own answer as to why they believe, so there is no universal secret formula for everyone to learn the truth. It's out there to find, but you find it your own way. My way though, I see it as best proven combining 1) faith, 2) science, and 3) logic (or I suppose you could say philosophy). I know this probably seems odd because many see these as contradicting elements, but I see them as complimenting each other. I think God's existance is both logical and scientifically supported (note I don't say scientifically proven).

So, I want to focus this post on logic. First of all, I think no matter what you believe about the origin of the universe, it's crazy. The idea of an unseen, omnipotent, divine Creator is crazy. However, believing everything just "blew up" into existence is also crazy. The universe is such an amazing concept that there's no "normal" explanation behind it. That's one thing that confuses me as to why so many people find the Big Bang so much easier to accept. You mean to tell me believing in God is crazy, but you have no problem believing everything "just happened"?

It's not, by itself, an end-all argument, but a lot of what I believe is rooted in what your philosophy majors know well as the "cosmological argument" for God's existance. Now, I'm no philosophy major, but I have studied this quite a bit on my own, and am still doing so. In my own terms, the argument breaks down as such:

1) We know that every affect has a cause. Everything that exists or occurs is caused by something before it. Every child has a parent, every motion is initiated by a force, every event has a beginning, and so on. There is nothing that has no cause. Life itself is one big line of falling dominoes.

2) The problem, then, is "infinite regression". In other words, it seems you go back in time infinitately from cause to cause to cause, etc. Basically, if you asked "What caused that?", once you got the answer, you could then again ask "Okay, well what caused that?" and so go back in time with that question infinitately. Even if you believe in the Big Bang, something had to cause it, and then something had to cause that, then...

3) So, we either have to a) accept that time has no beginning (which I don't know about you, but that makes no sense to me, everything as we know it couldn't have "just always been"), or b) realize that, at some point in the past, there had to be a first cause, or uncaused caused. In other words, you keep asking "What caused that?" until you evidently get to the point of "Well, nothing caused that."

4) So far, God is the only answer that fits. God, by His nature as we know it to be defined, IS without cause. God, being eternal, has no beginning or end (He is the "Alpha and Omega"). (Admittedly, that's hard to grasp, but toss the concept around in your head if you will.)

The reason we have trouble grasping the concept of God's "causelessness" is because it exists outside the "rules" of our universe. God, as Creator of both time and the universe, thus exists outside of both, and therefore He is not governed by them. Whereas inside the universe, everything has to have a cause, then outside the universe, such is not necessarily the case. That way, nothing governs or created God, He is The Creator.

Now, this is not the end-all argument. This "theory" can be argued and argued and argued on many points (such as "How can God be causeless?") and is widely argued in the philisophical community. However, it is a great building block to start with. Also, this theory does not support one belief of a god(s) over another; it only suggests that there is one, or at least one.

Once you come to a belief that there is a god, then the next step is determining which god is God.

If nothing else, it's a starting point, and I'll stop there for the time being...
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