Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

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If we cannot see these acts on God’s part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

@GreatestIam2 Said

Are faith, God and love without deeds, dead?

Paul took the position that salvation could be gained on faith alone. James took the position that faith without works and deeds is dead. Even if one had faith, like demons and Satan must, without works they were still going to hell.

Most have landed with James who said that faith without deeds and works was dead. This may be due to Jesus who said that we would recognize his people by their works.

Love, it would seem to me, has the same characteristic as faith. Love without works and deeds is dead. Be it love for a spouse, our children, parents or friends or even God, if we did not do works and deeds, they could not know that we love them. At the very least, we would have to tell them we love them and that falls into works and deeds.

Many believers tell me that God is love or loves us all. They always point to deeds and works that fall in the range of un-provable miracles. Most of these miracles are in the ancient past. Creation and what not. Some take it to the present and I have been told often that God can do whatever he wants with us because he made us. I discard this out of hand because I believe that if that were true, God would not also create all those things that kill us and cause us to suffer. That is not a loving act.

Love, human to human, must have ongoing deeds and works to be alive. Without these, love is dead.

Love, God to human, must also have ongoing works and deeds. If God is alive, he must and would express his love with viable and recognizable actions.

If we cannot see these acts on God’s part --- and you agree that love must be expressed somehow with works and deeds, ----does that mean that God does not love or that he is dead?

Regards
DL

@chaski Said

The bible is 100% correct and contains no contradictions, so both Paul and James are correct.

Salvation can be gained on faith alone, but without works and deeds that faith is dead. So you get to go to heaven, but your faith... goes to hell..?

@PerlaDelMar Said

People live like the Pharisees did, they believe in part because they were brought up to believe in things, yet they require miracles to truly believe. We are to ask to be anointed to understand the Bible, remember Jesus prayer in Matthew 11:25.

Such people that are always asking for proof are the people who are constantly in confusion. They believe somewhat because of upbringing, and yet some things they don't understand because of who they were being taught by---people who understand even less. If people truly wanted the answers, they would search wholeheartedly. God only gives understanding to 'children', not the wise and prudent---people who try to dissect the Word of God to prove that He does not exist. Those people rely on their own intellect to try to explain away what they themselves cannot make head or tails on.

@PerlaDelMar Said

People live like the Pharisees did, they believe in part because they were brought up to believe in things, yet they require miracles to truly believe. We are to ask to be anointed to understand the Bible, remember Jesus prayer in Matthew 11:25.

Such people that are always asking for proof are the people who are constantly in confusion. They believe somewhat because of upbringing, and yet some things they don't understand because of who they were being taught by---people who understand even less. If people truly wanted the answers, they would search wholeheartedly. God only gives understanding to 'children', not the wise and prudent---people who try to dissect the Word of God to prove that He does not exist. Those people rely on their own intellect to try to explain away what they themselves cannot make head or tails on.

@ThePainefulTruth Said


The only thing I'm confused about is Chaski's post.

@chaski Said

Which part... my sarcasm that the bible is 100% correct, my sarcasm that there are no contradictions in the bible, or the part about faith going to hell?

Or....?

@MadCornishBiker Said

Youo may be sarcastic about there being no contradictions in the bible, but as I have demnstrated more than once on here there simply aren't any. There are misunderstandings and occasional reporting differences, but no actual contradictions. We have even had a whole thread on here which others put forward things they felt were contradictions, but no-one found one I couldn't explain yet. Maybe you can? but somehow I doubt it veruy much. I would be grateful if you would try though.

The problem is that where people find what appears to be a contradiction, they are simply finding that because they have misunderstood the meaning of one or more of the scriptures which appear to contradict.

Straighten out the meanings and you lose the contradiction. That is a large part of the key to understanding the bible, not just assuming that because some say there are contradictions they are right.

Can you prove anything in the bible wrong? I couldn't? Nor can anyone else. History proves everything that we have evidence about to be correct. Archaeology backs that up. The only evidence that has been assumed to prove evolution actually supports creation far more accurately. There is not one piece of scientific evidence that pproves the bile wrong, though there is not a lot that proves it right either. The nearest thing that could be said to do that is where the bible describes the "circle of the earth", which appears to indicate a flat earth, but since Hebrew had no word for sphere, the Hebrew word there translated as circle also applies to spheres so who knows which they meant, certainly no one can prove it either way, unless you assume an ignorance which denies the knowledge of the one inspiring the bible.

No, the bible is 100% true, provided you take the wording to mean what it actually does mean, not one of the alternative, and sometimes more obvious, meanings. To rehash the old chestnut, for instance, as long as you realise that day doesn't always mean 24 hours, just as it doesn't in today's usage.

True that sometimes means you have to sort things out, but that is not all that difficult if approached with a desire to know which possible meaning is really true.

As I said, please feel free to point out any "contradictions" I am sure that google can lead you to many that people clam come under that heading. I would be happy to straighten them out, again, as I have before. After all, I had to satisfy myself of that first so it's not the first time I have done it, by a long way.

Quote:

The only evidence that has been assumed to prove evolution actually supports creation far more accurately. There is not one piece of scientific evidence that pproves the bile wrong,

@Wheezy_Knight Said

There's a superb typo in there at the moment MBC.



I feel the need to preserve it...

@chaski Said

The bible is 100% correct and contains no contradictions, so both Paul and James are correct.

Salvation can be gained on faith alone, but without works and deeds that faith is dead. So you get to go to heaven, but your faith... goes to hell..?

@PerlaDelMar Said

God only gives understanding to 'children',

@GreatestIam2 Said

Tell that to all the Church hierarchies.

They will not agree as children love all men and the churches must have hate for all the other tribes to run right.

Regards
DL

@MadCornishBiker Said

They wouldn't be that way if they followed what the bible teaches, as Christ said they should, but they don't, and that is what marks them as false.

@PerlaDelMar Said

People live like the Pharisees did, they believe in part because they were brought up to believe in things, yet they require miracles to truly believe. We are to ask to be anointed to understand the Bible, remember Jesus prayer in Matthew 11:25.

Such people that are always asking for proof are the people who are constantly in confusion. They believe somewhat because of upbringing, and yet some things they don't understand because of who they were being taught by---people who understand even less. If people truly wanted the answers, they would search wholeheartedly. God only gives understanding to 'children', not the wise and prudent---people who try to dissect the Word of God to prove that He does not exist. Those people rely on their own intellect to try to explain away what they themselves cannot make head or tails on.