Ok, I'll bring it up, but I'm wondering how many simultaneous debates we can keep up here.
Ok, the question I had problems with for a while was how we can have free will even though God knows what we are going to do before we do it and has prepared events to respond accordingly. If God knows our choices before we make them, do we have choices? Free will/predestiny: Contradiction or paradox?
My answer begins with how God has no begninning or end; He is timeless.
Actually, I have a hard time doing this without visual aid. Last time I was at a Bible study I was leading and used a pillow, and everybody was looking at me like I was nuts (don't ask)!
Anyway, so how can God be infitely backwards and forwards, no beginning and no end? My answer is He can, but we can't understand it in this life. And so I'll grab some object with a distinct beginning and end (like a pillow!) for visual aid.
God is the Creator of time, so time is our object in question. Time has a beginning (the creation) and an end (as described in Revelation and elsewhere). It's a straight line inbetween.
For us, we "can't see the forest for the trees" because we're "too close to it". Since we exist inside time, we have no concept of being outside time and thus can't grasp anything beyond time. We can't see the beginning or the end; all we can see is the point on the line that we're on and the points we've been on.
God on the other hand, is outside of time; He created it. (Here's the fun part
Because God is outside of time, he can see the beginning of time and the end of time at the same time. That's how God knew what would happen at the end of the world when He created it (I hypothesize somewhere in here is the answer to our suffering question, but I haven't figured it out yet; just an idea).
This also helps explain why we can't 100% debate God on logical standards alone. Logic as we know it is "inside the box" while God is "outside the box". So logic helps, but only goes so far; you have to combine it with something else (mentioned briefly in a previous post I made). This is where I belive the Holy Spirit bridges the gap for us, when we allow it.
Anyway, this is how you reconcile free will and predestiny: We can choose whatever we want, but that choice exists on a point in time. Since God is outside of time and can see all time at the same time, He can plan accordingly ahead of time (predestiny). (Yeah, trying saying THAT three times fast!)
So, we have free will and predestiny.
Okay, so you say a paradox is defined as a contradiction? A paradox is something that appears to be a contradiction but can be reconciled so that both opposing aspects of it actually coexist, so that it is not a contradiction in actuality. A true contradiction cannot be reconciled.
Now, on to the points actually in question:
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DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY MEN/WOMEN HAVE BEEN LYNCHED. HELL THE BLACK MAN SHOULD BE GOD, FOR WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO HIM, EVEN ON THE STREETS OF OUR BEAUTIFUL TOWN. SO BEING GOD KINDA NEGATES IT TO ME
How does that change anything? God suffered the ultimate suffering (was not only physical, but spiritual: the full sum of each person's sin) so that means 1) He fulfilled the law and paid the price and 2) He can relate to anyone else's suffering. "Being God kinda negates it" is still going back to the idea that God came down in all His divinity and not as a human, which is not the case. If the prior, that statement could be true, but rather it's the latter. God gave up His divinity for that so that it would not negate the purpose.
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NOT ALL CHRISTIAN APPROACH THE TRINITY AS YOU DO CURRENTLY
Correct. I look at things a lot differently than a lot of Christians do, in fact, and have been told I'm "going to hell" repeatedly as a result. I believe my approach is the biblical one though.
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IF SOMEONE KILLS/RAPESS MY WIFE I WILL COMMIT MURDER. SAY YOUR ON IN THE OCEAN AND i AM ON A BOAT. IF I SEE YOU AND OFFER TO HELP YOU THATS IS NICE, BUT IF I SEE YOU AND SAY "TELL ME i AM GOD AND YOU CAN GET ON", THEN YOUR CHOICES BECOME MOOT.
Bringing them onto the boat is a temporary thing; they're out of your sight afterwards so despite your ego in thinking you're God, you don't care what they think.
However, it's not as simple as the boat. Would you invite someone to live with you forever that denied your existance?
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MAYBE THAT IS WHAT BUDDA DID, OR MOHAMMED OR GANDI, OR BOB ... TO ME THIS IS RELEVENT BECAUSE YOU SAID THAT WE ALL HAVE TO MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES
Granted, but my point was God doesn't explain it all to us because He (going by my belief) wants us to think for ourselves and gives us enough info to figure it out. I don't understand how "we can choose our religion" counterpoints that. Those are two seperate issues. I'm having trouble connecting I guess -- My understanding is that you're saying 1) since we can choose a religion then 2) God should explain it all to us explicitly, which doesn't make sense given my point: He gives us enough info to figure it out so it's irrelevant how many "choices" we have. Have I misunderstood your point?
Phew...*pant, pant* Time to come up for air!
Apr 05, 2004 @ 02:41:38
