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25 Mind-Blowing Things Likely To Happen If Dems Succeed In Removing Trump From Office

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chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#106New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:15:55
@bob_the_fisherman Said

So, just to clarify.


>>> So, just to clarify <<<

There are a few potentially relevant crimes, but let’s stick to my favorite one for now.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977...the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibits...

1. The willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly (in this case foreign military aid to the Ukraine which would be sent, mostly, via electronic bank transfer)

2. In furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value (in this case almost $400 million)

3. to any person (in this case Ukraine)

4. while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official (in this case the president of the Ukraine)

5. to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty (the request to open an investigation into the Bidens)

6. , or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person. (in this case the U.S. 2020 presidential election).

So, the facts are essentially undisputed.

Concerning the 6 (six) elements of the potential crime, elements #1, #2, #3 and #4 where factually done, with one possible argument. #1 uses the word “corruptly”. Whether or not the actions in question were done “corruptly” is dependent on element #5… and to #6.

Now, onto elements #5 & #6:

#5: There is a question here, a legitimate legal question, as to whether or not the President of the Ukraine would have been acting “legally” by directing the investigation of the Bidens in return for $400 million in military aid.

#6: There is a question here: Would the public notification that the Ukraine was investigating the Bidens have provided an “advantage” to anyone (Trump) and can a political election be viewed as a “business”?

You decide for yourself.

When deciding keep in mind that not all crimes are viewed as reprehensible behavior, and not all reprehensible behavior is viewed as a crime.

In addition, keep in mind that a “crime” need not have occurred in order for a president to be impeached.

So the real question is: Aside from the potential violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, Is it acceptable for a sitting U.S. President to offer and/or threaten to withhold foreign aid to a country in return for that country publicly declaring that it will conduct a criminal investigation of a U.S. citizen.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#107New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:17:50
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Remind me again, please, of Hunter Biden's specific skill set that saw him being paid ten of thousands of dollars to sit on the board of a company ran by a very corrupt cartel of Ukranian thugs and henchmen?


Remind me again, please, if Trump used to hang our with members of the Mafia and has had numerous of his friends and business associates convicted.

Your guilt by association argument is trite at best.
bob_the_fisherman On July 06, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#108New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:32:02
@chaski Said

>>> So, just to clarify <<<

There are a few potentially relevant crimes, but let’s stick to my favorite one for now.

The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977...the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit

The willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality of interstate commerce corruptly (in this case foreign military aid to the Ukraine which would be sent, mostly, via electronic bank transfer)

In furtherance of any offer, payment, promise to pay, or authorization of the payment of money or anything of value (in this case $400 million)

[to any person (in this case Ukraine)

while knowing that all or a portion of such money or thing of value will be offered, given or promised, directly or indirectly, to a foreign official (in this case the president of the Ukraine)

to influence the foreign official in his or her official capacity, induce the foreign official to do or omit to do an act in violation of his or her lawful duty (the request to open an investigation into the Bidens)

, or to secure any improper advantage in order to assist in obtaining or retaining business for or with, or directing business to, any person. (in this case the U.S. 2020 presidential election).

So, the facts are essentially undisputed.

Concerning the 6 (six) elements of the potential crime, elements #1, #2, #3 and #4 where factually done, with one possible argument. #1 uses the word “corruptly”. Whether or not the actions in question were done “corruptly” is dependent on element #5… and to #6.

Now, onto elements #5 & #6:

#5: There is a question here, a legitimate legal question, as to whether or not the President of the Ukraine would have been acting “legally” by directing the investigation of the Bidens in return for $400 million in military aid.

#6: There is a question here: Would the public notification that the Ukraine was investigating the Bidens have provided an “advantage” to anyone (Trump) and can a political election be viewed as a “business”?

You decide for yourself.

When deciding keep in mind that not all crimes are viewed as reprehensible behavior, and not all reprehensible behavior is viewed as a crime.

In addition, keep in mind that a “crime” need not have occurred in order for a president to be impeached.

So the real question is: Aside from the potential violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, Is it acceptable for a sitting U.S. President to offer and/or threaten to withhold foreign aid to a country in return for that country publicly declaring that it will conduct a criminal investigation of a U.S. citizen.


Oh noes, Chaski. Donald Trump asked a question about possible Democrat corruption.

See, the problem, Chaski, is that Trump released the transcript of that call and all of us could see that no crime was committed - there was no quid pro quo nor were there conditions put on the aid being given. Trump did not withhold money from Ukraine in return for a favour. Trump did not say the money was being withheld, nor place any condition on it being released. The money was released to Ukraine without any favour being done, and if you listen to the anti-Trump clowns who tried to accuse him recently, they admit that Ukraine was not even aware that the money was being withheld.

This is more absurd than the recent Russian farce.

I remember you banging on about how many Trump people were indicted. however, if DNC ops were held to the same standard as Trump supporters, would there be any DNC people not sitting in a cell right now? They all made lying an art form.

Just accept the truth Chaski - the DNC tried to steal the election (voter fraud is a thing that the US media would report on if the US had a media), but they failed. They are children who had their lolly taken from them and they are now into their third year of a tanty that will not stop until they get what they want - power by any means necessary.

It's the same self important childishness we see from the Remoaners in the UK.

As far as being pro-Trump, I am to the extent that he is still the only western leader acting on behalf of the people he's elected to govern. I still do not think he should be a leader though. Nor do I agree with everything he does. In fact I disagree with him on a lot of things. It's just that the choice was between a cancerous criminal cabal and an undesirable leader. I chose the undesirable rather than the cabal because I understand that freedom is a value we need to protect.

To be honest, I would prefer that the swamp in the US, Australia, the UK and Europe more broadly, was truly drained of the criminals in positions of power.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#109New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:34:46
@bob_the_fisherman Said


See, the problem, Chaski, is that Trump released the transcript of that call



No he did not. He released a summary of the call, not the actually transcript. You have been willfully duped.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#110New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:36:01
@bob_the_fisherman Said


As far as being pro-Trump, I am



There fixed that for you.
bob_the_fisherman On July 06, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#111New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:36:12
@chaski Said

Remind me again, please, if Trump used to hang our with members of the Mafia and has had numerous of his friends and business associates convicted.

Your guilt by association argument is trite at best.


So you are arguing that Hunter Biden had a skill set that made him worthy of a position on the board of a Ukranian company that was ran by a criminal cartel? ok. I'll ask.

What skills did he bring to the table?

It was not any knowledge of the Ukraine, or oil or anything else Burisma was legally involved in. So, what did he bring?

I have to say you seem very remarkably cavalier in your attempt to dismiss almost certainly corrupt activities involving a Democrat while being simultaneously overly exuberant in your attempt to smear Trump for not committing a crime.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#112New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:38:16
@bob_the_fisherman Said


I remember you banging on about how many Trump people were indicted. however, if DNC ops were held to the same standard as Trump supporters, would there be any DNC people not sitting in a cell right now? They all made lying an art form.



No Bob... the guilty by association has been your argument, not mine.
bob_the_fisherman On July 06, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#113New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:40:20
@chaski Said

No he did not. He released a summary of the call, not the actually transcript. You have been willfully duped.


https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/11/15/4-21-19.trump-zelensky.call.pdf
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#114New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:41:49
@bob_the_fisherman Said

So you are arguing that Hunter Biden had a skill set that made him worthy of a position on the board of a Ukranian company that was ran by a criminal cartel? ok. I'll ask.



Nope. I never argued that. In fact, I don't think I've ever made any posts about Hunter Biden's skill sets.



@bob_the_fisherman Said

What skills did he bring to the table?


I haven't a clue what he brings to the table.

@bob_the_fisherman Said


I have to say you seem very remarkably cavalier in your attempt to dismiss almost certainly corrupt activities involving a Democrat while being simultaneously overly exuberant in your attempt to smear Trump for not committing a crime.


I have said that I am perfectly OK with Biden being investigated and sent to jail.

How is that a "cavalier" attempt two dismiss anything?
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#115New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:43:09
@bob_the_fisherman Said

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/11/15/4-21-19.trump-zelensky.call.pdf



From your link: >>> A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. <<<

It was NOT a "transcript" it was a summary... but thank you for helping clarify that point.


PS

This line looks like something Bill Clinton would have said, "An interpreter facilitated this conversation. Differences in interpretation may result in subtle differences in the exact meaning of phrases."

chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#116New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:47:50
Release the full transcript!

Release the witnesses!

They will exonerate you President Donald Jesus Christ Trump, let the facts exonerate you dear lord and savior! Let the facts exonerate you and prove that Democrats are fools!

bob_the_fisherman On July 06, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#117New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:49:54
@chaski Said

There fixed that for you.



Your perception is false. I support some things Trump has done.
His stand towards China is better than other western leaders, but goes nowhere near far enough.

His stand towards Nk is the same.

His actions towards NATO and making them pay more is great.

His stated approval of Brexit is brilliant. It makes him the only pro-democracy leader in what used to be the free world.

Calling out the duplicity of European leaders thumping the US with massive tariffs was a great thing, as was the way he called out Merkel's Russian hypocrisy in the Helsinki meeting with Putin.

Trying to undo Obama's push to make Iran a nuclear power was probably too little too late, but it also ruffled the feathers of the anti-freedom EU, so it had that ancillary benefit.

However, I intensely loathe his fawning towards the Sauds. He may not be as bad as Obama, but it leaves a lot to be desired. He is still involved in the Middle East - and I dislike it, although that region has been made such a mess by previous US leaders that withdrawal is not an easy option to take.

His failure to act against the anti-freedom social media publishers that lie about being platforms is also extremely disappointing.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#118New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:50:33
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Your perception is false.





bob_the_fisherman On July 06, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#119New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 20:57:42
@chaski Said

From your link: >>> A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. <<<

It was NOT a "transcript" it was a summary... but thank you for helping clarify that point.




You should have kept reading.

>>>> The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty Officers and NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A number of factors can affect the accuracy of the record,
including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation. The word "inaudible" is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the note taker was unable to hear.
An interpreter facilitated this conversation.

Differences in interpretation may result in subtle differences in the exact meaning of phrases. <<<<


You now appear to be claiming that "subtle" differences includes Trump saying things the opposite of what was written in the transcript of the call (and this is a transcript, by the way. It is a written version of material originally presented in another form (verbal communication via telephone)).
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#120New Post! Dec 24, 2019 @ 21:03:32
@bob_the_fisherman Said


You now appear to be claiming that "subtle" differences includes Trump saying things the opposite of what was written in the transcript....



No I am not. I was pointing out that "it" is NOT complete transcript but rather is a summary.

One would think you intelligent enough to know the difference between a complete transcript and a summary.



The line about "subtle differences in the exact meaning of phrases" is just comically Clinton like.
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