The Bible, a lot of people here slate it to suit themselves

@bob_the_fisherman Said
Which is why John (one of the people to whom that was said), clarified its meaning. And, as Aquine already pointed out, John and others did see that according to the bible...

@ThePainefulTruth Said

So John "clarified" Jesus' meaning. Where exactly did John do that, correct the 3 previous Gospel's quote of what Jesus said that is? Does it come out and say Jesus was misquoted by them? And if that's the case should we delete those Gospels from the Bible since they would be suspect? How many other contradictions with John might/do they contain.

I dare say that it isn't the first instance where things have been "clarified" in the Bible.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

He never says in there 'and it is going to happen in your lifetime.' He says, 'you do not know when it will happen, so watch, and be prepared.'

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Yes, and as Aquine explained, according to the bible, that happened... not the least of which I suppose, was the fact that they saw him after he had died (according to the bible).

It is easy to take a part of the bible and misinterpret it - in fact, it is easy to do that with anything. We all do it regularly as a part of our miserable existence as subjective beings...

@ThePainefulTruth Said

And the easiest path of all is blind faith.

@bob_the_fisherman Said
I am well aware that I could be wrong.

@ThePainefulTruth Said

I don't think you are, you dismiss those 3 passages so casually and out-of-hand. Your response merely sweeps them under the rug.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

He says these people will see the kingdom of god coming with power - him returning from the dead would be something I may say was the kingdom of god coming with power... it is not an unreasonable belief.

@ThePainefulTruth Said

But it is. James, John of Revelation and even Paul didn't see it that way.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Ok, I'll bite...

Paul said when speaking of the end time, those of "us" that are still here at the end, when Jesus returns, will be taken away. I suppose it is this you are referring to?

Now, imagine with me for a moment that I knew that the end would not come for 200 years, and some Christians came to me being afraid, because they had been told that the end had already happened. I would say to them, 'relax, you do not need to fear, at the end, all of us that are living on earth will be taken. You have nothing to worry about.' Is what I say here wrong? No. Is it a lie? No. Does the "us" refer to me or my immediate audience? No. It refers to Christians.

John refers to "living in the last hour" in a letter he wrote to someone who would not get to read the letter for several days, if you are referring to this - it is obvious when he said the "last hour" therefore, that he was speaking figuratively. Also, in one of his letters somewhere, he responded to the fact that people were misreporting the news that the end would come before he died... he said that this was not a correct view.

As to James, I have no idea.

PT - don't be offended by this, because it is not meant to be offensive. You are obviously a smart guy - the discussions we have had here would indicate that pretty clearly. So, you should also see that a semantic exercise like this is not particularly valid - it is merely a cheap shot. Unless you have studied the bible in depth and know it well and understand the times when figurative and literal language are used, this is merely the typical method of looking for sentences to take out of context... It might be fun for the protagonist, but there is, I suspect, a cornucopia of refutations of this stuff on the net... read them, rather than go over an argument that has been done to death in other places (and that you have probably had repeatedly with Christians over the years - unless of course you are getting your material from the skeptics bible or something...) If you want to attack Christianity, that is fine, but at least use a credible argument.

@ThePainefulTruth Said

Semantics indeed. My comment was about your statement that the resurrection was the second coming. None of them saw it that way (and this is the first I've heard of such an idea even from the most fundamental Christian). The coming in clouds analogy was a catch phrase for that event, drawing on Daniel. All three of them still expected his imminent return after the resurrection.

@ThePainefulTruth Said

Semantics indeed. My comment was about your statement that the resurrection was the second coming. None of them saw it that way (and this is the first I've heard of such an idea even from the most fundamental Christian). The coming in clouds analogy was a catch phrase for that event, drawing on Daniel. All three of them still expected his imminent return after the resurrection.