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4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#106New Post! Jan 14, 2020 @ 03:52:20
@mrmhead Said

So it was a retaliatory strike first defense of an imminent threat to maybe not 4 embassies as a strategy of deterrence ... and that other guy ...

Gotcha!



At least competent administration would keep on the same page with their lies.

Everybody agreed there were WMMDs ... until there weren't. (Then the doubters came out)


Well that's the interesting thing. Saddam Hussein did at one point have WMD, blister agent sold to him by the US to use during the Iran/Iraq war. Primarily used against Iranian soldiers when the fighting was in urban terrain. The Iraqi Army dominated the Iranian army in the deserts and mountains but the sheer number of Iranian soldiers was too much for them in the cities. Saddam also used gas against the Kurdish minority. So when the Neo Cons used that as the invasion excuse Darth Cheney was like " yeah cause we have the receipt!"
Problem is we didn't find it because maybe Saddam was smart enough to give it all to Bashar al-Assad. Or maybe we DID find it but since it was still in the cases labeled "property of USArmy" they decided to go with the "we didn't find it" head scratching let's look stupid instead of evil routine.
Hard to say really
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#107New Post! Jan 14, 2020 @ 05:18:11
@4d4m Said

And by the way you are right about the Kurds, but that also backs up my statement.


No it does not.

@4d4m Said

The Kurds are a mostly Sunni group. Note the PKK is considered a terrorist group by the USA.


But you said we used to like them.

@4d4m Said

ISIS is a Sunni apocalyptic group made up of Iraqi Sunnis and former officers from the Iraqi Army, displaced by Shi'ite leadership in the new Iraq. THAT is what I said.


And that is only partially correct... but not really accurate as I have described.

@4d4m Said

The US invasion. NOTE: didn't say we made enemies of Sunnis and befriended Shi'ites. I said " we then attacked Sunnis to the benefit of Shi'ites." English comprehension.


You are so full of s*** it is funny. You are all over the place with your opinions.

chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#108New Post! Jan 14, 2020 @ 05:23:30
@4d4m Said

Ok first of all, I'm not a right winger.



Did anyone say that you are a "right winger"?

@4d4m Said

The fact that up until 9/11 we supported mainly Sunni nations is not disputable, it is a fact. Our allies in the region are Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Kuwait. Our main opponents there were Shi'ite. I backed this up with lots of wikis and such.


Then you said Sunnis were are enemies, which is bull s***.

Many Sunni majority nations were our allies before 9/11 and remain our allies after 9/11.

@4d4m Said

After 9/11 we went to Afghanistan to take on Al Queda and the Taliban, Sunni groups. This is unusual. THAT was all I said.


That is not all that you said. Now you are fibbing.




You know what... if you throw enough s*** at a wall, some of it will stick.
4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#109New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 03:52:51
Today in the news, the New York Times and Fox news have said there were two missiles that hit the unfortunate Ukraine Airlines flight. They have video to prove it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html?auth=login-email&login=email

https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-ukraine-plane-crash-missile-video
4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#110New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 03:56:25
The New York Times article goes on to point out that mistaking the plane for an incoming cruise missile is a little hard to believe as the plane was climbing at 2,000 ft per minute on it's ascent from the airport. It was one of 19 flights that left the airport in the hours after the missile attack on the bases in Iraq.

---Still waiting on a passenger manifest
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#111New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 04:09:57
@4d4m Said

...mistaking the plane for an incoming cruise missile is a little hard to believe


So, you are saying that it was not a mistake.

Ok... then why did Iran shoot down a Ukrainian airliner?

What was the purpose/goal of shooting down a civilian airliner?
Cpat92 On about 11 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#112New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 04:58:54
@chaski Said

So, you are saying that it was not a mistake.

Ok... then why did Iran shoot down a Ukrainian airliner?

What was the purpose/goal of shooting down a civilian airliner?



Do you believe that they did shoot it down accidentally?
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#113New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 05:14:08
@Cpat92 Said

Do you believe that they did shoot it down accidentally?



Yes.

1. There is no geopolitical reason for Iran to purposefully shoot down an Ukrainian airliner.

2. There is no military reason for Iran to purposefully shoot down an Ukrainian airliner.

3. There is no reason either geopolitical or military for Iran to shoot down any airliner with numerous Canadians on board.... and there certain were no Americans on board.

4. Iran was likely expecting retaliation for their attack on U.S. bases in Iraq, so it makes sense that someone in the Iranian military might be on high alert and make a mistake.

But I am willing to be convince otherwise... can you explain why Iran would have done this on purpose?

It seems that they have embarrassed themselves... massively.

But, again, I am willing to be persuaded.

What rational or irrational reason would Iran have to do this on purpose?
Cpat92 On about 11 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#114New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 05:19:32
@chaski Said

Yes.

1. There is no geopolitical reason for Iran to purposefully shoot down an Ukrainian airliner.

2. There is no military reason for Iran to purposefully shoot down an Ukrainian airliner.

3. There is no reason either geopolitical or military for Iran to shoot down any airliner with numerous Canadians on board.

4. Iran was likely expecting retaliation for their attack on U.S. bases in Iraq, so it makes sense that someone in the Iranian military might be on high alert and make a mistake.

But I am willing to be convince otherwise... can you explain why Iran would have done this on purpose?


Well, I cannot as I do not know if it was done on purpose or during the heat of the moment. They could have just fired upon it without checking whether or not it was a US military aircraft. Could have mistaken it for a C-130 or something. Not saying I disagree, nor did I say they did it purposefully (if I did, I can't remember). If you and many others who share similar views as you are correct, then it can possibly be that they did fire at the airliner thinking it belonged to the US who they expected to retaliate.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#115New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 05:28:05
@Cpat92 Said

They could have just fired upon it without checking whether or not it was a US military aircraft. .


Wouldn't that be a mistake?

@Cpat92 Said

...it can possibly be that they did fire at the airliner thinking it belonged to the US who they expected to retaliate.


Wouldn't that be a mistake?


Again... why would they purposefully and knowingly fire on a civilian airliner?

I'm open for any suggestion... like Iran has just likes killing civilians and targeted this airline for the fun of it...?




Don't get me wrong. Iran f__ked up. They did it. Clearly they did it. They are "guilty".

But on purpose with intent to kill civilians that were unrelated to any conflict? I find that hard to believe.

It was a massively stupid f__k up... but not "on purpose".

But maybe I am wrong.
Cpat92 On about 11 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#116New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 05:54:57
@chaski Said

Wouldn't that be a mistake?



Wouldn't that be a mistake?


Again... why would they purposefully and knowingly fire on a civilian airliner?

I'm open for any suggestion... like Iran has just likes killing civilians and targeted this airline for the fun of it...?




Don't get me wrong. Iran f__ked up. They did it. Clearly they did it. They are "guilty".

But on purpose with intent to kill civilians that were unrelated to any conflict? I find that hard to believe.

It was a massively stupid f__k up... but not "on purpose".

But maybe I am wrong.


Those statements were in support of yours. As I have stated last time, I am not disagreeing and I cannot give an explanation as to why they would intentionally target them. I think that either way, this incident or whatever it may be called doesn't look good for Iran.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#117New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 06:05:41
@Cpat92 Said

Those statements were in support of yours. As I have stated last time, I am not disagreeing and I cannot give an explanation as to why they would intentionally target them. I think that either way, this incident or whatever it may be called doesn't look good for Iran.



Got it.
4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#118New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 06:18:45
Ok so I don't pretend to know the answer, all I do is analyze the news and use logic and the things I understand to try to figure these things out. That's what this thread is about; figuring out what's going on. To do this we have to forget what we THINK we know. There might be plenty of reasons to shoot down that plane. I tried to think of the reasons and arrived at this one. I do not know if it is correct or not. All we can do is watch and see what develops. But- at this time we know the plane was shot down. We know it was a pair of Iranian missiles and we know it's sounding less like an accident.
4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#119New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 06:23:00
This is an exercise in logic. It's like Plato and Socrates would do. There is a couple of points worth making here, sometimes ( actually a lot of the time ) the people making the decision know a lot more than we do. The other point is never underestimate the apathy toward other humans by the rulers of this world.
4d4m On about 4 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#120New Post! Jan 15, 2020 @ 06:44:39
@chaski Said

So, you are saying that it was not a mistake.

Ok... then why did Iran shoot down a Ukrainian airliner?

What was the purpose/goal of shooting down a civilian airliner?


From the get go I doubted it was a mistake. There are all kinds of fail safes used with dangerous military hardware to keep things like this from happening. Of course that doesn't mean accidents don't happen. In post 90 I referred to a possibility. That doesn't mean it's correct. It's just something I brainstormed on. The NYT article backs up my suspicions that it wasn't an accident, that's all.
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