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chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#31New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:29:30
@Cpat92 Said

I admit that the timing seems pretty off. It is also pretty obviously coincidental in the "heat of the impeachment." It kind of makes sense to me. Regardless of the arguments raised that the United States deserved the demonstration at the Embassy.



A couple more things...

> Soleimani was undoubtedly up to no good... from "our" perspective. But one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

But, back to his killing....

1. Let's say that the killing was done by an Iraqi group: I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. Soleimani doing stuff in Iraq knowing it is a dangerous place, and knowing that some Iraqis don't like him and Iran.

2. Let's say that the killing was doing by the Iraq government/military. I'm still not sure it was the best idea, but again I don't have that big of a problem with it.

I typically look at these situations with the following filter:

>>> If "they" did "this" to "us" would "we" be mad and think it unfair/unjust/etc? <<<

If the answer is "yes", then I think we should probably not do "it".

If the answer is "well sure we'd be mad, but that is the nature of war... soldiers live, fight and sometimes die... nature of war. Then I'd think maybe it is ok if we do "it".
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#32New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:37:45
The point I'd like to make about Soleimeni's demise is that it impacts more than one aspect of politics.
1) Sabotages the pro democracy demonstrations in Iran
2) Overshadows Trump's impeachment trials
3) Overshadows the disastrous withdrawal of US forces from Northern Syria
4) Got rid of a mid east power player who's influence with militias all over the region could be seen as a threat to the rest of the power players

Was this decision based on some sort of consensus we don't know about? Note that I'm not trying to make a judgement based on any of this, I'm just throwing out the facts
Cpat92 On May 21, 2020
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#33New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:40:35
@chaski Said

A couple more things...

> Soleimani was undoubtedly up to no good... from "our" perspective. But one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

But, back to his killing....

1. Let's say that the killing was done by an Iraqi group: I wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. Soleimani doing stuff in Iraq knowing it is a dangerous place, and knowing that some Iraqis don't like him and Iran.

2. Let's say that the killing was doing by the Iraq government/military. I'm still not sure it was the best idea, but again I don't have that big of a problem with it.

I typically look at these situations with the following filter:

>>> If "they" did "this" to "us" would "we" be mad and think it unfair/unjust/etc? <<<

If the answer is "yes", then I think we should probably not do "it".

If the answer is "well sure we'd be mad, but that is the nature of war... soldiers live, fight and sometimes die... nature of war. Then I'd think maybe it is ok if we do "it".


Sometimes when it comes to that question and people answer yes, there is that follow up question by the daring person/jackass who asks:

>>> "Do we give a f**k?"
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#34New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:43:45
LOL. that's a good point. It is possible rather than a consensus being arrived at the decision might have been more like, "if we do this is it really going to upset anyone involved in the region?"
The answer to that question is pretty much a big no. Even if the leadership of Iran is putting on a show of grieving, the fact is he presented a threat to them as well.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#35New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:49:33
@Cpat92 Said

Sometimes when it comes to that question and people answer yes, there is that follow up question by the daring person/jackass who asks:

>>> "Do we give a f**k?"



Yes.... and if that question comes from someone who has actually served "our" country in the military, I view it as arguably a valid point.

Typically, however, I have found that the people usually making that kind of statement never served in the military... and the ones who did haven't lost a close friend in battle.

But clearly I am no scientifically valid sampling of the populace at large, so perhaps I'm wrong.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#36New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 00:59:58
@4d4m Said

"if we do this is it really going to upset anyone involved in the region?"


I'm sure that was at least part of the "calculus".

As to the answer to that question is pretty much a big no, I think you are mistaken. Iran clearly does care that Soleimani was killed.... if for no other reason than they can now "legitimately' walk away from the agreement to not make nukes. Yes, they may well have violated that agreement anyway, but now they have a "just" reason to violate it.

At the proverbial end of the day, Iraqis probably don't care... though it might well be a rallying cry for many, and apparently is that >>> another anti-American rallying cry.

As to the rest of the M.E., it depends on the country but most won't care as they have their own concerns.

Ultimately for me, as I said before, I think it was a bad choice.... but I think we should get out of the M.E. anyway. I don't think it possible for "us" to "fix" any of it, so sending our soldiers to die for a wasted cause is nothing less than stupidity.

The only people in the M.E. that should be any concern of ours are the Kurds. They have proven to be good allies. The rest of the M.E. can and should go f__k itself.

And on that note: that is exactly why "we" should be developing alternative sources of energy. Specifically: The day that sand is more valuable than oil, is the day when the problems in the M.E. begin to fade away. "They" either get with the "program" and move into the 21st Century...or go back to being nomadic desert tribes... etc.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#37New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 01:06:01
@4d4m Said

The point I'd like to make about Soleimeni's demise is that it impacts more than one aspect of politics.
1) Sabotages the pro democracy demonstrations in Iran
2) Overshadows Trump's impeachment trials
3) Overshadows the disastrous withdrawal of US forces from Northern Syria
4) Got rid of a mid east power player who's influence with militias all over the region could be seen as a threat to the rest of the power players

Was this decision based on some sort of consensus we don't know about? Note that I'm not trying to make a judgement based on any of this, I'm just throwing out the facts



1) Sabotages the pro democracy demonstrations in Iran
2) Overshadows Trump's impeachment trials
3) Overshadows the disastrous withdrawal of US forces from Northern Syria

These

The decision was most likely based on Trump having a temper tantrum.
Cpat92 On May 21, 2020
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#38New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 02:31:25
@chaski Said

Yes.... and if that question comes from someone who has actually served "our" country in the military, I view it as arguably a valid point.

Typically, however, I have found that the people usually making that kind of statement never served in the military... and the ones who did haven't lost a close friend in battle.

But clearly I am no scientifically valid sampling of the populace at large, so perhaps I'm wrong.



In all honesty, most of our presidents who never served in the military possibly had such thoughts. Whether it regarded to war or other situations.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#39New Post! Jan 07, 2020 @ 04:53:24
@Cpat92 Said

In all honesty, most of our presidents who never served in the militar...



Who would they be... if I'm not mistaken...

Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush... and Bush all served in one of our military branches.

Clinton... no... academic deferment... right or wrong... I think it is wrong, but it was the law at the time.

Obama... no... but no deferment, no draft, no deferment needed.

Trump... no... draft dodger... fake medical deferment... coward... DRAFT DODGER... someone went to war in his place... did that man die...
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#40New Post! Jan 08, 2020 @ 03:35:35
Today Iran attacked some airbases in Iraq with coalition personnel. The US has reported no casualties. I cant seem to find if there are casualties among Iraqi or Kurdish forces. If anyone has any info, or maybe we'll find out tomorrow.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51028954

Be nice to see what kind of damage was done by these Iranians rockets as well. Maybe some of the missile defense systems had some success.
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#41New Post! Jan 08, 2020 @ 03:38:10
Rocket fire is pretty common in the region and hasn't led to war in the past. We'll see but I'm still not buying into the hype.
darkman666 On 23 minutes ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#42New Post! Jan 08, 2020 @ 04:00:36
even since desert storm war, it seem the war was more involved save oil over there, and than the loss of people life. like Vietnam, more about politic America more involved than loss human lives.

it seem that ww2 was last war that got involved with more loss human life, not politically motivation.

these days, seem that money and politically motivation that America want power and respect. America - what happen to go war to protect human life?
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#43New Post! Jan 08, 2020 @ 04:14:31
I agree, there is obviously something wrong with this whole affair. From the First Gulf War through to today. I have a theory on that but I feel like holding my tongue ( or fingers as it were ) for now.
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#44New Post! Jan 09, 2020 @ 02:53:00
Today a lot of analysts analyzing the events of Wednesday morning. because that's what they do. There seems to be a little disagreement however. The point of contention is if Iran was targeting American personnel or not.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/08/middleeast/iran-base-strikes-logic-intl/index.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-knew-iranian-missiles-were-130330752.html

Of course, if it is decided by the public Iran was targeting US personnel pressure might be put upon our government to pursue more military action against Iran. This seems to be something neither Trump nor the Supreme Leader of Iran wants, despite rhetoric to the contrary.
4d4m On about 5 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#45New Post! Jan 09, 2020 @ 02:55:55
There was this story about an American contractor that was killed in the missile attacks, there doesn't seem to be a lot of mention of the man possibly because he is of Iraqi decent or possibly because neither side really wants escalation.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sac-man-killed-iraq-rocket-064620631.html
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