Should the Confederate "Stars & Bars" be retired from government buildings?

@Crush Said

States rights; he didn't owe the US his sole loyalty. His loyalty was to Virginia. Disobeying the federal government as the ultimate form of treason is a postbellum idea.

@shinobinoz Said

Yup- the states rights to....... OWN SLAVES was foremost!
"Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation."


Oh boy- VERY 1st two sentences of Georgia's declaration:
"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery."

Apparently they did not like being forced to relinquish slavery so self defense was kind of a "stand your ground" defense.
But if you'd like me to continue I shall share some of the THIRTY-FIVE references to slaves & slavery in the Georgia declaration for you. Can you show the importance of your 4 reasons that trumps slavery? anything?



Oh boy o boy!
Texas. What racist grandeur (and 21 slave notations when not specifically waxing on about white race supremacy over the black race):

"She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery—the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits—a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should continue to exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and the other slaveholding States of the Confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by the association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slaveholding States, since our connection with them?

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States, on the Pacific ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government, to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slaveholding States."

@shinobinoz Said

You've not been able to separate slavery from the south's secession. I do so applaud your efforts though!

@shinobinoz Said

Nope, pretty sure that was what it's basic principles were, what he knew he would be fighting FOR because he was not man enough to fight for the rights of ALL AMERICANS.

@Crush Said

You've done nothing to rebut any of the above points. Rebranding everything as slavery doesn't make it slavery.

"States rights? You mean slavery. Georgia felt the Union was controlled by Northern money interests? Money is just another word for slavery. You're eating a ham sandwich? Look again, it's a slavery sandwich."

@Crush Said

I have, but again, you're incapable of thoughtcrime.

@DiscordTiger Said

So, if you are really trying to white knight for Lee and make him sound better. It's not working for me. You can like him all you want, I don't really care and certainly won't say you can't like him.

Treason and LOSING, is just a deal breaker for me. If you are going to take that step, go balls the wall and fight to the death or win. Half measures are for losers, and sometimes it's just time to build a bridge and get the f*** over it.

I also went to a "robert e lee" school. Really, nothing is ever going to make me think he was a respectable upstanding person. He basically took a s*** on everything he did well in life at the end. He made those choices and didn't even have the conviction to follow it through to the end.

I don't think we need to like change the school name or stop teaching about him. People can find their role models where ever they want. I can still think some of them are bad choices and interact with that person accordingly.

@shinobinoz Said

sooooooo...... let's get this straight. Your saying- it was all about slavery!!!!!

@Crush Said

My oh my, you are as tedious as you are self righteous. Fighting to defend your ancestral home is not fighting to defend slavery, no matter how hard you wish it were.

@shinobinoz Said

Nope. You've tried but there is not a single issue that does not ultimately arrive right back at the slaver's doorstep.

@Crush Said

Except Texas feeling it was receiving no benefit from the Federal government, or South Carolina feeling that it was justified in leaving the Union because the Constitution was a voluntary pact, Georgia feeling it was being embezzled by Northern industry...

@shinobinoz Said

Yes. Yes it is. 1st off. He could have disavowed slavery- he did not.

Quote:
I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil.

@shinobinoz Said
He could have made his decision to stay with the union- he did not..

@shinobinoz Said
He could have stayed out of it- he did not.

@shinobinoz Said
He elected to fight a war that was about, how'd you put it? "States rights, you mean slavery!"

@shinobinoz Said
Not to mention Lee's slaves.

@shinobinoz Said

All valid points AFTER their complaint about
S
L
A
V
E
R
Y
going away.

@Crush Said

He did disavow slavery.




He owed a greater loyalty to Virginia.



He was defending his home.




Did you eat leaded paint chips as a kid? When I wrote "States rights, you mean slavery!" I was mocking you for your ridiculous attempt to make everything about slavery.



Because he had slaves doesn't mean he fought to preserve slavery. The great majority of the men in the army of the CSA never owned a slave.

@Crush Said


Banishing history because of the current cause celebre reduces the range of thought.

@Crush Said
It's only the naïve who swallow the acceptable narrative with relish that would think the US Civil War = slavery.

@Crush Said

Where did I say slavery wasn't a cause? Moronic bravado is cringe inducing