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Feelings Over Free Speech

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Crush On March 18, 2020




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#1New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 03:52:03
Here is an interesting piece in which a professor describes the stifling effects militant PC enforcement has onfree speech in universities. Scary to think the university, where thinking and diversity of opinion is suppose to be encouraged, is becoming one of the least free thinking environments in the culture.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

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Emerald City, United States (g
#2New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 04:49:27
It reads more like I'm bitter I took a s***ty job, never made any effort to advance, with a mix of these kids now a days, and a need to yell to get off my lawn.
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#3New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 05:00:54
He's not alone in feeling college campuses are becoming free speech no go areas.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

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#4New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 05:10:27
People are not alone in thinking that 9-11 was an inside job, or Obama was born in Kenya.

It's like both articles are arguing special "sneauflakes" exist among the student population. They do, so do a*****es. This is not new. Both still have free speech that doesn't mean they are ever going to agree or like each other.
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#5New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 05:43:59
But unlike truthers or the birth certificate crowd, there's corroborating evidence . The very existence of a "free speech zone" implies that other zones lack free speech.
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#6New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:15:08
The ACLU has also taken a stance against the attack on free speech on college campuses.

Quote:
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution protects speech no matter how offensive its content. Speech codes adopted by government-financed state colleges and universities amount to government censorship, in violation of the Constitution. And the ACLU believes that all campuses should adhere to First Amendment principles because academic freedom is a bedrock of education in a free society.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

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Emerald City, United States (g
#7New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:17:42
@Crush Said

But unlike truthers or the birth certificate crowd, there's corroborating evidence . The very existence of a "free speech zone" implies that other zones lack free speech.


Free speech, as in the constitution amendment, refers to congress passing laws to limit speech. If a place isn't congress(or the government) then they have a say in what type of speech, (or behavior) is allowed. This is not a new concept.

It's like if you start yelling in a library, you are pretty much going to get kicked out. That doesn't mean congress is passing a law about the volume at which things are said, limiting speech. The two things are not equivalent, I don't understand what you think that is corroborating. That colleges and university have general codes of conduct? Again not a new concept in the past few years.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

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Emerald City, United States (g
#8New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:30:25
@Crush Said

The ACLU has also taken a stance against the attack on free speech on college campuses.


But that professor was basically arguing that because he took a very low end job on the academic pecking order, he feels he has no job security because there are a ton of people willing to do the job. (seriously adjunct not engaged in research is just above a GA/TA that the school uses as cheap labor, (cheap as in the they may get paid in tuition benefits). Then he blames this lack of job security on kids these days and they how they mess things up for him, with their "feelings".


Hell, adjunct professors can be let go if enrollment drops, even if they are the best loved teachers. They are the first budget lines that administration goes after. Most of the time it isn't even about what is going on in the class room. Especially if it is state school. State legislators have more of a say in the budget and the keeping of lines as is than student course reviews.
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#9New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:47:42
@DiscordTiger Said

Free speech, as in the constitution amendment, refers to congress passing laws to limit speech. If a place isn't congress(or the government) then they have a say in what type of speech, (or behavior) is allowed. This is not a new concept.

It's like if you start yelling in a library, you are pretty much going to get kicked out. That doesn't mean congress is passing a law about the volume at which things are said, limiting speech. The two things are not equivalent, I don't understand what you think that is corroborating. That colleges and university have general codes of conduct? Again not a new concept in the past few years.



The great bulk of universities are funded by the federal government. With that funding comes federal control. Neither is that a new concept.

If a government funded organization begins dictating what is and what is not acceptable speech, then that amounts to government restriction on speech.

Furthermore, you don't see any danger in institutes of higher learning discouraging free discourse?
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#10New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:49:44
@DiscordTiger Said

But that professor was basically arguing that because he took a very low end job on the academic pecking order, he feels he has no job security because there are a ton of people willing to do the job. (seriously adjunct not engaged in research is just above a GA/TA that the school uses as cheap labor, (cheap as in the they may get paid in tuition benefits). Then he blames this lack of job security on kids these days and they how they mess things up for him, with their "feelings".


Hell, adjunct professors can be let go if enrollment drops, even if they are the best loved teachers. They are the first budget lines that administration goes after. Most of the time it isn't even about what is going on in the class room. Especially if it is state school. State legislators have more of a say in the budget and the keeping of lines as is than student course reviews.



What you've poster her amounts to motive mongering. He picked a rough job field, no doubt. But the fact that he and many others in his position feel the need to censor themselves is what's at issue.

When professors can't speak freely for fear of offending students, there's something seriously wrong with the university system.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

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Emerald City, United States (g
#11New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 06:58:58
@Crush Said

The great bulk of universities are funded by the federal government. With that funding comes federal control. Neither is that a new concept.

If a government funded organization begins dictating what is and what is not acceptable speech, then that amounts to government restriction on speech.

Furthermore, you don't see any danger in institutes of higher learning discouraging free discourse?


I don't see a bitter professor whining about how he thinks his jobs sucks as any tangible evidence that institutes of higher learning are discouraging free discourse.

Even the free speech zone, thing that you brought up was more about time and place appropriate than silencing ideas. There is a big difference between staging a picket/protest on campus in the open area, and doing it in someone's dorm. One just doesn't make sense, and starts to infringe on others.

So no. I'm not really scared of the boogyman in the corner, because I don't see any evidence the boogyman exists.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#12New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 07:02:43
@Crush Said

What you've poster her amounts to motive mongering. He picked a rough job field, no doubt. But the fact that he and many others in his position feel the need to censor themselves is what's at issue.

When professors can't speak freely for fear of offending students, there's something seriously wrong with the university system.



Feeling the need to censor yourself is not the same as speech being silenced.

I thought one of my bosses was an epic c***, I didn't say that to her face, because that seemed like a stupid idea on my part.

My speech was not silenced, I could easily call her a c***. I'm not going to jail, but that does not mean that I would be free of consequences from my actions.
DiscordTiger On 53 minutes ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#13New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 07:05:48
By the way, I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with the current university system. There is a s*** ton wrong with it. I just don't agree with the premise of the article that the main problem is the "feelings" of kids these days.
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#14New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 07:10:35
@DiscordTiger Said

I don't see a bitter professor whining about how he thinks his jobs sucks as any tangible evidence that institutes of higher learning are discouraging free discourse.


You're just discounting his argument by assigning bad motives to him. You really don't see anything wrong with professors being afraid to speak their minds freely?

@DiscordTiger Said
Even the free speech zone, thing that you brought up was more about time and place appropriate than silencing ideas. There is a big difference between staging a picket/protest on campus in the open area, and doing it in someone's dorm. One just doesn't make sense, and starts to infringe on others.


Where else in our culture are free speech zones as common as a university? The free speech zones aren't about keeping protestors out of dorm rooms. It's about marginalizing politically unpopular speech.

@DiscordTiger Said
So no. I'm not really scared of the boogyman in the corner, because I don't see any evidence the boogyman exists.



Congressional hearings into the suppression of free speech on college campuses doesn't amount to evidence? How do you respond to the ACLU calling it a serious issue?
Crush On March 18, 2020




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#15New Post! Jun 08, 2015 @ 07:11:26
@DiscordTiger Said

Feeling the need to censor yourself is not the same as speech being silenced.

I thought one of my bosses was an epic c***, I didn't say that to her face, because that seemed like a stupid idea on my part.

My speech was not silenced, I could easily call her a c***. I'm not going to jail, but that does not mean that I would be free of consequences from my actions.



Insulting an individual and being silenced for holding politically unpopular opinions aren't comparable.
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