Blood Issue truly no longer an issue.

@LuckyCharms Said

I swore I would avoid discussions like this for a while, but after reading the above exchange I feel compelled to ask a few questions and make a few statements. I am not baiting or even trying to bait. But this is the crux of my problem with you and with others that feel similarly.

I know you have read the bible and studied it extensively. I know you feel/believe that the JW's faith is the one true way. I don't discount your faith or even try to deny you your faith. It is, after all, for you.

Now there are a lot of other people from other faiths that have studied their texts and even the bible and several other texts. Some feel/believe that their faith is the one true way. Others feel/believe that their faith is the true way for them - ones that don't subscribe to the 'one true way' doctrine.

Please understand I'm not asking you to justify your faith. You don't need to do that for me because it is your faith - not mine. What I am asking is if you have considered the possibility that your faith is not necessarily right for everybody? And further that their faith serves them well and doesn't doom them to eternal damnation?

Please don't respond with a bunch of bible quotes. I'm not looking for a discussion based around preaching or justifications. These are just a couple of straight up questions.

The reason I ask these things and say these things is that I don't know if you realize that when you interact with people, in your excitement over your faith you tend to dismiss theirs and in so doing come across quite insulting. Faith is an exciting thing. It can be interesting and challenging and even all-consuming. But I ask you to consider the possibility that you are throwing a wet blanket on other people's excitement about their faith when you speak so dismissively about it.

So that's my few things.

(If it's a bunch of bible quotes and preaching as a response, don't be surprised if I don't answer because I'll feel that in your enthusiasm you have again been dismissive of the feelings of the person you are interacting with. When that feeling arises, the best thing to do is walk away realizing that the problem isn't mine.)

@MadCornishBiker Said

Lol, OK I'll try and avoid the quotes, though you must know that bible principles is in the back of my mind.

In a sense you are asking me to justify what I do, and since that is all completely bound up in my faith I suppose that means that indirectly you are asking em to justify that too, but that's not a problem I am more than happy to explain it, and I leave it to others to work out if it is a valid justification or not.

Am I throwing a wet blanket over their enjoyment of their faith?

In a sense I certainly hope so, because what they need is to put their faith in the right God, and in the right way. That is the only thing which will have more than a transitory benefit to them.

I don't want to damage their faith, simply encourage them to put their faith in the right thing, the right God, the right teachings. What's the point in believing what is essentially a lie?

Why?

Because that is what God wants, it is what His son wants, and it is what all the Angels want, as well as all their human followers.

Again why?

Because God does not want any to die. He wants all to live, so He wants them all put on the right road. Guided away from danger.

Yes, I appreciate that some people see it as insulting, but that is their choice, and has nothing to do with how it is meant, merely how they choose to see it. Sad, but true.


What can I do about that?

Nothing!

I cannot control how people choose to take what I say, nor should I attempt to. My only task is to put the truth as seen by God and Christ in front of people. To me it is the viewpoint of God and Christ that matter, no-one else's. Even me would not matter, however that is not a problem because I have happy suborned my opinions to theirs. I would be both foolish and hypocritical to do otherwise.

When I see people's reactions to what I teach I simply think back to how people reacted to Christ, who taught exactly the same things.

Most people who listened to him didn't like it because it meant they would have to give things up that they wanted / enjoyed.

Many didn't like what he taught because it meant that they weren't as "good" as they wanted to think they were, and let's face it we would all like to think we were good, even those like me who recognise that we really aren't.

Many didn't like it because they felt their friends would look down on them if they followed what he taught.

Some were disgusted by what they heard and simply couldn't be bothered to ask what he meant by it so just walked away.

Every reaction I get, Jesus got before me, and usually for the same reasons, just as he said all his followers would.

There is really nothing I can do about that.

My favourite illustration is as follows:

You are walking along a cliff path you know well, and so you are safe even though it is foggy and you can't see anything. Suddenly you realise that someone ahead is walking straight for the cliff edge and doesn't realise it.

At what point do you stop trying to warn them?

I am sure that you would keep shouting until you actually saw them go over the edge.

That is the position I am in. This whole world is heading for a cliff edge in the fog of religious confusion. Most are doing so quite happily with no idea where they are really headed. Some are following poor guidance given by others, and are therefore not only walking to their deaths, but taking those they have persuaded to believe what they do as well.

When do I stop trying to alert people?

When will it be too late to let them know what is going on?

The answer is simple. As with Noah, when God "closes the Ark door", that will be the time to stop.

When will that be?

Well as far as we know at the moment there won't be any call from Heaven, any trumpet blast or anything that outstanding.

So how will we know.

Well so far Jehovah has always made sure that the money has been there to carry on the work. He has always made sure that the JWs have won every court battle to legalise the preaching work in every country where there has been a legal appeal process.

When He ceases to back it, it will fail. That will be the time to stop.

I can see it happening soon quite honestly. Certainly the JWs have done all the an to get the information out to people, but even in my time it has changed.

When I joined they charged a nominal amount for their literature. A bible, for instance, cost £2. The brilliant Reference Bible, with all it's cross references and addition information in the appendices was ony £10. Even in the mid 80's (1980's, lol not 1880's) that was extremely cheap for a hardback book. Magazines were £0.10

Within a decade it was decided, after much prayerful consideration, to make the literature by donation only, so no-one actually had to pay anything unless they chose to.

Now people can get it all off the internet, completely free, and they don't even have to answer the door when a JW calls.

There is a complete library available online (home page, click on publications, then online library) for anyone to read without any need to register. There are also, under publications, many books brochures and magazines that can be downloaded as documents or audiobooks, including the non-reference bible.

Their money comes purely from contributions, so it will be easy for it to dry up when God wants it to.

Quote:
What I am asking is if you have considered the possibility that your faith is not necessarily right for everybody?

Quote:
And further that their faith serves them well and doesn't doom them to eternal damnation?

@LuckyCharms Said

Thank you for your answer sans bible quotes. You took the long way about it, but I suppose the answer to my questions are as follows.



So the answer to this is no. You believe that the faith you practice - JW - is the right way for everyone.



And the answer to this is no as well. You believe the JW faith is the only faith that will save people from eternal damnation.

Further, you subscribe to the 'one true way' doctrine. You do not view your actions as disrespectful or dismissive but instead as a dire warning to save people's souls.

Well we are really at opposite ends of the spectrum and I do wish you could be more inclusive and respect the various faiths. I don't really know if there is much point in interacting with you.

@LuckyCharms Said

Thank you for your answer sans bible quotes. You took the long way about it, but I suppose the answer to my questions are as follows.



So the answer to this is no. You believe that the faith you practice - JW - is the right way for everyone.



And the answer to this is no as well. You believe the JW faith is the only faith that will save people from eternal damnation.

Further, you subscribe to the 'one true way' doctrine. You do not view your actions as disrespectful or dismissive but instead as a dire warning to save people's souls.

Well we are really at opposite ends of the spectrum and I do wish you could be more inclusive and respect the various faiths. I don't really know if there is much point in interacting with you.

@MadCornishBiker Said

Sorry I obviously wasn't as clear as I should be but you got pretty close. I do tend to get carried away, it is that important.

As for it being right for everybody, that depends on what you mean by "right for everybody".

What the bible teaches is the way we were designed and built to live. So in theory it is, in that sense "right for everybody".

Unfortunately, because of the way things went, not everyone is right for it.

Because it was how God designed us to be and to live, and because it is the only way people will ever be as united as we were intended to be, then yes, it is the only way God will accept, as He Himself has made clear, so yes it is the only one that will lead to salvation.

The JW connection is that currently they are the only ones following that path, and any others who followed it would, by default, be JWs.

In the end the only thing that matters is that there can by definition, only be one truth, and that applies to everything not just religion. and since God wants us to follow it, then He would, and has, let us know how.

Yes there is only one road to Salvation, Christ made that very clear. He also made it very clear that few would choose to follow it.

It is God who sets the standard not us. We cannot tell God what He must or must not accept. He tells us, and has.

@LuckyCharms Said

Don't sell yourself short. You were abundantly clear.

We really are at opposite ends of the spectrum. My point of chagrin is that although I can respect that your faith is right for you, that you, ultimately, cannot respect that my faith (and the faith of others that differs from yours) is right for me (and them.)

I understand and respect your ability to know what is right for you. I also understand that as the human condition goes, I cannot possibly know what is right for you. It would be very arrogant of me to dismiss your faith. You do not and cannot understand or apply these ideas to others. That is a very frustrating thing and essentially makes interaction with you very unsatisfactory.