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bob_the_fisherman On about 10 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#76New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 09:00:49
@nooneinparticular Said

I find it funny that you accuse me of a lack of nuance and then go into how anything Hitler said or did is only ever 100% wrong.


I never said or implied that. Hitler got the German economy booming through building infrastructure. In fact, if it wasn't for the bit about Jews, social justice and privilege and the Holocaust and the world war he would have been considered one of the great leaders of any era.

I just can't overlook the ungood bits though. If you can, and you agree with his ideas that led to the war and the Holocaust, that's ok. I think it means you may be a psychopath, but that's ok too.

@nooneinparticular Said
So only most of your political opposites are morons and muppets who don't know what they're doing or saying. Well, isn't that a happy little accident for you then isn't it?




I never said or implied that either. I said some people who believe in one ideology that oppose me are morally bad or intellectually deficient. Many people oppose my ideas without holding absurd or dangerous beliefs. SJWs are just one noisy, slightly disabled minority that make lots of noise, like all empty vessels.

@nooneinparticular Said
If you think a tantrum will work in your favor then go ahead.


Tantrums have nothing to do with it. It is simply a matter of not caving in to the petulant hostility of a group of democracy haters in the EU, and, giving ammunition to the anti-EU sentiment on the continent. Merkel and Macron are ultimately answerable to their people due to that whole election thingy.

When it comes to being publicly blamed for yet more economic chaos in their own countries or dealing with the UK on individual trade deals or working out an interim deal, they might find some room to move. If not... So be it.

The UK can't stay in the EU just because the EU are democracy hating asses now can they?
Jennifer1984 On about 18 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#77New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 09:45:07
This is a cut and paste of the sort of discussion we're having on other UK forums, in this case, one of my LGBT sites.


Oathy wrote: »
» show previous quotes

Shambles doesn't do it justice. Really sad thing suspect May and others really believed they would get it changed
suspect historians will question why she closed so many doors months ago instead of leaving them open.
Ruling out another vote in such strong terms and messing around with a no deal scenario was utterly irresponsible.

SNP are just slavering at the chaos and pushing for another indy vote. All because bloody Cameron was scared stiff of Farage and May is scared stiff of the ERG




(response by By "Colin ********" (my starring out of name))

British Exceptionalism at it's finest - Summarising the Brexiteers view* 'Of course they will break at the last moment, that's what they always do. They won't be able to stomach a hard Brexit'.

Well, here we are. The EU have stomached it and they have called our bluff. They know it will cause them damage but, shock horror, are putting the integrity of the EU first.

You see, British politicians have failed to comprehend, as it seems many of them have for the past 45 years, that the European Project is primarily a peace project. We don't get it because we still have this superiority that we were never conquered during WW2. But they value the EU for more than the trade, and hate us for trying to destroy an organisation that ultimately keeps the continent at peace.

So if we don't want the deal as negotiated then they are at peace with us sending ourselves over the cliff. They will just use it as an opportunity to take our business, and use the UK as a useful case study for internal consumption as to what happens when you let nationalism get away with itself.


The paragraph that I have emboldened highlights something that non-Europeans particularly, and insular Britons completely miss. That the EU arose out of the wreckage of WWII. It had two main goals. Yes, the first was to promote trade across the continent, but secondly, and equally important to them was to unite Europe in such a way that the possibility of those countries ever wanting to go to war against each other was eradicated. In this it has been entirely successful and Europe.... a continent that was CONTINUALLY at war with itself in some part or another for more than a thousand years has avoided another cataclysmic conflict since 1945. And those of us who recognise that fact rather like it and want it to stay that way.

But extreme nationalism.... the kind that flourished in the early part of the twentieth century and the 1930's and created two global conflicts.... has been promoted in Britain and by our example (the 2016 referendum) has encouraged it in extremist groups in other European states.

Because of this, Brexit in the form the UK government would like it cannot be allowed to succeed where the continent of Europe is concerned.

Nigel Farage publicly stated that his aim was not just to get Britain out of the EU, but to "Bring the whole bloody thing crashing down."

Do you think those of us who want to live in peace and free from extremism are going to allow that to happen..?
shadowen On about 5 hours ago




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#78New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 14:42:43
@Jennifer1984 Said

At the last Scottish independence referendum

You make it sound like there has been more than one

@Jennifer1984 Said

the Conservative government won a great deal of votes for maintaining the United Kingdom with the argument that strongly pro Europe Scotland would continue to be a part of the European Union. However, if they voted to become an independent nation they would not only be leaving the United Kingdom but also the EU and would have to apply to join from scratch, a process that could take several years with no guarantee of being accepted.

The EU themselves stated that Scotland would have to apply for EU membership under article 49 with a number of EU leaders stating that the process could take decades and that there was a good chance the application bid would fail. Spain were strongly opposed to the idea of an independent Scotland joining the EU, as was Guy Verhofstadt (the EU Parliament's representative in the Brexit negotiations). Funnily enough the Spanish, and people like Guy Verhofstadt, are now saying that an independent Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.

@Jennifer1984 Said

The SNP have been sidelined and Scottish voices have been drowned out.

So what's new?

@Jennifer1984 Said

If the government of the United Kingdom is to represent the whole Union...

The gov of the UK has NEVER represented the whole Union. It has always been dominated by the English. Of the 650 seats in the United Kingdom Parliament...

- 533 are in England,
- 59 in Alba/Scotland,
- 40 in Cymru/Wales and
- 18 in Northern Ireland.


@Jennifer1984 Said

run entirely from Westminster for the benefit of English interests.

As it ALWAYS has.


@Jennifer1984 Said

the strong likelihood that NI will merge with the Republic.

One can only hope. Éire should NEVER have been partitioned in the first place.
shadowen On about 5 hours ago




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#79New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 15:35:02
@Jennifer1984 Said

The hatred of the French and Germans is so deeply ingrained in the baby boomer generation...that it's become a form of pathology.


Generally speaking baby boomers is a term used to describe a person who was born between 1946 and 1964.

Now many of these baby boomers would have been old enough to be aware that the UK's applications to join the EC in 1963 and 1967 were vetoed by France. Furthermore, virtually all of these baby boomers would have had parents who lived through the 2nd world war. Who lived under the threat of German invasion, who lived through the blitz and who had lost husbands, fathers, brothers, sons etc in the fighting. And yet in 1975 67% of those who voted in the EC membership referendum chose to remain in "Europe". Now I havent looked up the age demographic of those who voted back in 1975 but I would be surprised if the French and German hating baby boomers voted to leave the EC at a noticeably higher rate than the rest of the population. So if the baby boomers so called "deeply ingrained" hatred of the French and Germans wasnt enough to stop them from voting to keep the UK within the EC back in 1975 why was it the reason they wanted the UK to leave the EU in 2016? Could it possibly be that for most the reason they voted differently in 2016 compared to 1975 was for reasons other than some so called "deeply ingrained" hatred of the French and Germans?
Jennifer1984 On about 18 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#80New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 15:43:12
It’s being reported on Sky News that the government has announced a £1.6 billion fund for run down brexit supporting towns and cities. It’s been described as “a desperate measure” by John McDonnell and Anna Soubry.

The money will (apparently) be going to areas that voted for Brexit - how callous is that..!! and will be allocated thus:


:: North West £281m
:: West Midlands £212m
:: Yorkshire and the Humber £197m
:: East Midlands £110m
:: North East £105m
:: South East £37m
:: South West £35m
:: East of England £25m
:: Another £600m will be available through a bidding process to communities in any part of the country

Cornwall falls within the South West region.

So....... £35 million to cover Cornwall, Devon, Somerset and Avon.

Just a little point worth noting: Cornwall was scheduled to receive 349 million Euro (£299'533'068.13 at current exchange rates) in EU grants for 2020 had UK remained in the EU.

Hmmmmm..... Lose nearly £300 million and get a share (and not the lion's share if Devon has anything to do with it) of £35 million.

What makes you think this is not being well received here in beautiful Cornwall...? The local radio stations are going bat-s*** crazy with callers.

Oh, and just one other little point...... That £35 million will be spread over four years.
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#81New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 19:19:49
@bob_the_fisherman Said

So you think holding all members of a race guilty is ok. I won't argue against that. I don't think I need to.


Don't really understand how your comment stems from mine.
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#82New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 19:57:05
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I never said or implied that. Hitler got the German economy booming through building infrastructure. In fact, if it wasn't for the bit about Jews, social justice and privilege and the Holocaust and the world war he would have been considered one of the great leaders of any era.

I just can't overlook the ungood bits though. If you can, and you agree with his ideas that led to the war and the Holocaust, that's ok. I think it means you may be a psychopath, but that's ok too.


If you want to believe that social justice always and forever leads to Nazism, then that's your right I suppose.

Quote:



I never said or implied that either. I said some people who believe in one ideology that oppose me are morally bad or intellectually deficient. Many people oppose my ideas without holding absurd or dangerous beliefs. SJWs are just one noisy, slightly disabled minority that make lots of noise, like all empty vessels.


Oh, okay. So when you said:

Quote:
Anyway, I think most are ignorant. Most of them probably don't know they sprout the same crap Hitler did (especially when they accuse their opponents of being 'Nazis' or 'far right' as though Nazism is on the right, or they're not the ones just spewing Nazi slogans all over the place). If they do know, that takes a seriously man sized set of nads... and some hard core evil in the soul. Until proven otherwise I'll go with indoctrinated or ignorant rather than evil for the bulk of them.


What you actually meant was that only some of them are morally bad or intellectually deficient. Alright then. Glad we could clear that up.

Quote:

Tantrums have nothing to do with it. It is simply a matter of not caving in to the petulant hostility of a group of democracy haters in the EU, and, giving ammunition to the anti-EU sentiment on the continent. Merkel and Macron are ultimately answerable to their people due to that whole election thingy.

When it comes to being publicly blamed for yet more economic chaos in their own countries or dealing with the UK on individual trade deals or working out an interim deal, they might find some room to move. If not... So be it.

The UK can't stay in the EU just because the EU are democracy hating asses now can they?


So refusing to bend over backwards to accommodate a constituency that they don't answer to is 'democracy hating' now is it? Yes, Brexit will probably cause some amount of economic chaos in certain other countries besides the UK. Should that fact outweigh the one that says the EU can probably afford it? It sucks for the communities it hits, but overall it's impact is bearable. Is this not the same argument someone who's okay with a no deal Brexit would use? Does the fact the Irish border may become more turbulent and dangerous outweigh the fact that Brexiters believe that they can weather the coming storm, even without a deal?
bob_the_fisherman On about 10 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#83New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 21:02:58
@nooneinparticular Said

If you want to believe that social justice always and forever leads to Nazism, then that's your right I suppose.


I never said that either.

I wonder if you're even capable of working out that the words I write have a meaning? You never seem to.

I said if people want to sprout the same crap Hitler did about a privileged race and social justice, they can, however, they are either evil or they are morons who honestly believe you are Hitler if you disavow Nazi ideas.

Of course you are free to disagree. Let's all use the typical leftist line after the deaths of millions of innocent people due to yet another failed attempt to implement their unworkable theories.

"Nazism wasn't real social justice." It'll work better this time, because if we keep doing the same things the results are bound to be different eventually.



But again, maybe you can explain to me how lying about and scapegoating an entire race of people is going to work better this time? Honestly, I'm all ears (or eyes as it were). Please, tell me how social justice will be better this time. Tell me how embracing racial hate and lying about an entire race will end well this time around. I'm fascinated.

White privilege is a lie. If you want privilege in the west be an Asian. Or, just do what they do more overall - get married and have children and place a strong emphasis on traditional family values... and place a strong value on education.

Skin color is irrelevant.

@nooneinparticular Said
Oh, okay. So when you said:

What you actually meant was that only some of them are morally bad or intellectually deficient. Alright then. Glad we could clear that up.




It only needs to be cleared up because you clearly don't read what I write. I'm not sure I can say it differently, so I'll just say it again and hope your comprehension skills have improved:

I have never said everyone on the left is an SJW or sprouting Nazi crap.

I said everyone sprouting Nazi crap is either evil or a moron.

@nooneinparticular Said
So refusing to bend over backwards to accommodate a constituency that they don't answer to is 'democracy hating' now is it?


No. Refusing to work out a deal that benefits all people in the EU and the UK just because you are a piece of excrement who wants to punish the Brits makes you an anti democracy a*****e. It won't effect these people. They have their wealth and power. It's the workers in the UK and EU who'll get screwed by their anti-democracy pique.
bob_the_fisherman On about 10 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#84New Post! Mar 04, 2019 @ 21:07:01
@shadowen Said

Spain were strongly opposed to the idea of an independent Scotland joining the EU, as was Guy Verhofstadt (the EU Parliament's representative in the Brexit negotiations). Funnily enough the Spanish, and people like Guy Verhofstadt, are now saying that an independent Scotland would be welcomed with open arms.


Spain. Bashing those wanting independence in their own nation, and encouraging fragmentation in the name of unity in someone elses.

Gotta love the "consistency."
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#85New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 00:54:23
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I never said that either.

I wonder if you're even capable of working out that the words I write have a meaning? You never seem to.

I said if people want to sprout the same crap Hitler did about a privileged race and social justice, they can, however, they are either evil or they are morons who honestly believe you are Hitler if you disavow Nazi ideas.

Of course you are free to disagree. Let's all use the typical leftist line after the deaths of millions of innocent people due to yet another failed attempt to implement their unworkable theories.

"Nazism wasn't real social justice." It'll work better this time, because if we keep doing the same things the results are bound to be different eventually.



But again, maybe you can explain to me how lying about and scapegoating an entire race of people is going to work better this time? Honestly, I'm all ears (or eyes as it were). Please, tell me how social justice will be better this time. Tell me how embracing racial hate and lying about an entire race will end well this time around. I'm fascinated.

White privilege is a lie. If you want privilege in the west be an Asian. Or, just do what they do more overall - get married and have children and place a strong emphasis on traditional family values... and place a strong value on education.

Skin color is irrelevant.


Okay, so then what forms of social justice doesn't lead to Nazism, in your opinion? You say that I'm incorrectly characterizing your stance and then go on to say that the idea that Nazism wasn't real social justice is an eye-roll worthy one.

Quote:



It only needs to be cleared up because you clearly don't read what I write. I'm not sure I can say it differently, so I'll just say it again and hope your comprehension skills have improved:

I have never said everyone on the left is an SJW or sprouting Nazi crap.

I said everyone sprouting Nazi crap is either evil or a moron.


Notice that I never said that you said "everyone on the left is an SJW or sprouting Nazi crap". What I said was that you think "only most of your political opposites are morons and muppets", which I then pointed out such a stance works well for someone who wishes to disregard most of their political opposites as not worth the time to consider or count.

Quote:

No. Refusing to work out a deal that benefits all people in the EU and the UK just because you are a piece of excrement who wants to punish the Brits makes you an anti democracy a*****e. It won't effect these people. They have their wealth and power. It's the workers in the UK and EU who'll get screwed by their anti-democracy pique.


Refusal? What refusal was there exactly? What was the deal they could have made that would have 'benefited everyone involved'?
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#86New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 01:04:12
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I never said that either.

I wonder if you're even capable of working out that the words I write have a meaning? You never seem to.

I said if people want to sprout the same crap Hitler did about a privileged race and social justice, they can, however, they are either evil or they are morons who honestly believe you are Hitler if you disavow Nazi ideas.

Of course you are free to disagree. Let's all use the typical leftist line after the deaths of millions of innocent people due to yet another failed attempt to implement their unworkable theories.

"Nazism wasn't real social justice." It'll work better this time, because if we keep doing the same things the results are bound to be different eventually.



But again, maybe you can explain to me how lying about and scapegoating an entire race of people is going to work better this time? Honestly, I'm all ears (or eyes as it were). Please, tell me how social justice will be better this time. Tell me how embracing racial hate and lying about an entire race will end well this time around. I'm fascinated.

White privilege is a lie. If you want privilege in the west be an Asian. Or, just do what they do more overall - get married and have children and place a strong emphasis on traditional family values... and place a strong value on education.

Skin color is irrelevant.





It only needs to be cleared up because you clearly don't read what I write. I'm not sure I can say it differently, so I'll just say it again and hope your comprehension skills have improved:

I have never said everyone on the left is an SJW or sprouting Nazi crap.

I said everyone sprouting Nazi crap is either evil or a moron.



No. Refusing to work out a deal that benefits all people in the EU and the UK just because you are a piece of excrement who wants to punish the Brits makes you an anti democracy a*****e. It won't effect these people. They have their wealth and power. It's the workers in the UK and EU who'll get screwed by their anti-democracy pique.


Getting back on topic for a bit, how is ANY discussion about how 'informed' your political opponents are at all relevant as to why or why not a second referendum should happen?
bob_the_fisherman On about 10 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#87New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 04:13:44
@nooneinparticular Said

Okay, so then what forms of social justice doesn't lead to Nazism, in your opinion? You say that I'm incorrectly characterizing your stance and then go on to say that the idea that Nazism wasn't real social justice is an eye-roll worthy one.


I do not say their ideas lead to Nazism either. I said they sprout the same crap as Nazis about privilege and power and social justice.


@nooneinparticular Said
Notice that I never said that you said "everyone on the left is an SJW or sprouting Nazi crap". What I said was that you think "only most of your political opposites are morons and muppets", which I then pointed out such a stance works well for someone who wishes to disregard most of their political opposites as not worth the time to consider or count.


Ye-e-eeeessss... but I never said or implied that.

I'll try it again.

People who sprout Nazis ideas about race et al., are evil or morons.

That says literally nothing about how many of them there are, or what percentage of my political opponents they are. In fact, I think I said somewhere along the line that these muppets are a minority, but they are also mainstream.

@nooneinparticular Said
Refusal? What refusal was there exactly? What was the deal they could have made that would have 'benefited everyone involved'?


A trade deal... just sayin...
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#88New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 07:26:03
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I do not say their ideas lead to Nazism either. I said they sprout the same crap as Nazis about privilege and power and social justice.


And so what? The eye-roll and the 'look at where that led us' statement WASN'T supposed to imply a causal relationship? Because otherwise tying social justice with Nazism holds no meaning whatsoever.

What you're saying here is that social justice has callbacks to the Nazi Regime, but that's either fine because one does not necessarily lead into the other, or it's worrying because they are similar. So in other words, the fact that social justice uses some similar calls to action as the Nazis means nothing concrete.

As much as you seem to dislike the slippery slope argument, you sure use it a lot. The slippery slope argument is essentially an ignoring of nuance.

Quote:

Ye-e-eeeessss... but I never said or implied that.

I'll try it again.

People who sprout Nazis ideas about race et al., are evil or morons.

That says literally nothing about how many of them there are, or what percentage of my political opponents they are. In fact, I think I said somewhere along the line that these muppets are a minority, but they are also mainstream.


What do you mean by "mainstream"? Because the definition I'M familiar with is that mainstream means 'the dominant trend in something' like say politics.

There is no reason to bring up minority views when talking about voting in politics. The very nature of voting snuffs those views out of actionable politics. If they are actually affecting politics and the actions that government is taking then they are clearly not minority views. The ONLY time in which minority views matter is when talking about minority rights. In every other sphere of politics, minority views are swept aside.

Quote:

A trade deal... just sayin...


And Trump could have just signed a denuclearization deal with NK. Who cares what's in it or what it says, right? As long as there's a deal, that's what's best for everyone, right? Neither of these things are as simple as you seem to be implying they are, but it's your right to believe you could fix all the problems with Brexit in a week if you wish. Doesn't make it true, but you're free to believe it.
bob_the_fisherman On about 10 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#89New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 07:59:32
@nooneinparticular Said

And so what? The eye-roll and the 'look at where that led us' statement WASN'T supposed to imply a causal relationship? Because otherwise tying social justice with Nazism holds no meaning whatsoever.


My statement was what it was. When I say we have been here before, I say we have been here before because we have been here before. The left using lies about race to fuel hate and division and blame the group they attack. How you interpret the meaning of that is up to you.

And as I say, you may indeed believe that SJWs are right, or, that this can end in a bum banging rendition of khumbaya around the campfire for people of all races. And who knows? It might. Just because race hate has never worked well in the past doesn't mean it won't if we just keep trying. It's the same with the economic policies of the left. It might work next time.

Now, I don't claim to be a prophet. I can't tell how this will go. Hence why I say we have been here before. And, some of us do not like where we are.

I think blaming a race of people for your problems and basing it on lies is bad. If you disagree that's ok. You are allowed to disagree with me.

@nooneinparticular Said
What do you mean by "mainstream"? Because the definition I'M familiar with is that mainstream means 'the dominant trend in something' like say politics.


In the sense in which I used it I mean ideas around privilege get air time in the media and even in politics these days, not that it's dominant.

@nooneinparticular Said
And Trump could have just signed a denuclearization deal with NK. Who cares what's in it or what it says, right? As long as there's a deal, that's what's best for everyone, right?


Honestly?

I say aim for a deal that is good for all people, but have no deal as an option, and you characterise that as me saying that a deal that is bad or worse than no deal is better than no deal because it's a deal...

That is as stupid as it sounds, which is why I wrote it that way.

I'm happy to discuss things with you, and I enjoy the debate to some degree, but can you at least try to not bounce around absurdity to absurdity?

The whole point of this debate is that a no deal Brexit is not ideal, but it needs to be an option. Taking a worse deal than no deal is not reasonable, but seemed to be all May could manage.

@nooneinparticular Said
Neither of these things are as simple as you seem to be implying they are, but it's your right to believe you could fix all the problems with Brexit in a week if you wish. Doesn't make it true, but you're free to believe it.


Leaving with no deal is better than taking a deal that's worse than no deal, and it is better than staying when the people voted to leave.

Don't reward the EU for being anti-democracy.
nooneinparticular On August 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#90New Post! Mar 05, 2019 @ 08:35:41
@bob_the_fisherman Said

My statement was what it was. When I say we have been here before, I say we have been here before because we have been here before. The left using lies about race to fuel hate and division and blame the group they attack. How you interpret the meaning of that is up to you.

And as I say, you may indeed believe that SJWs are right, or, that this can end in a bum banging rendition of khumbaya around the campfire for people of all races. And who knows? It might. Just because race hate has never worked well in the past doesn't mean it won't if we just keep trying. It's the same with the economic policies of the left. It might work next time.

Now, I don't claim to be a prophet. I can't tell how this will go. Hence why I say we have been here before. And, some of us do not like where we are.

I think blaming a race of people for your problems and basing it on lies is bad. If you disagree that's ok. You are allowed to disagree with me.


So in actuality, this conversation means nothing to the wider discussion and you just brought it up to rant about the SJWs for a while?

Quote:

In the sense in which I used it I mean ideas around privilege get air time in the media and even in politics these days, not that it's dominant.


That's a rather broad definition of 'mainstream' isn't it? Does that make Furries Rights mainstream since Portland decided to make a law, aka talk about in politics, where furries were allowed to use parks like actual dogs and other animals?

Quote:

Honestly?

I say aim for a deal that is good for all people, but have no deal as an option, and you characterise that as me saying that a deal that is bad or worse than no deal is better than no deal because it's a deal...

That is as stupid as it sounds, which is why I wrote it that way.

I'm happy to discuss things with you, and I enjoy the debate to some degree, but can you at least try to not bounce around absurdity to absurdity?

The whole point of this debate is that a no deal Brexit is not ideal, but it needs to be an option. Taking a worse deal than no deal is not reasonable, but seemed to be all May could manage.



Leaving with no deal is better than taking a deal that's worse than no deal, and it is better than staying when the people voted to leave.

Don't reward the EU for being anti-democracy.


I simply find the idea that the UK can't have a second vote because you think Brexit was handled incompetently utterly baffling. I honestly think that the fact you think Brexit has been handled incompetently because you think May has fouled everything up but it's the EU's fault somehow talks went south by being undemocratic is completely incomprehensible. I find the idea that you can name no better solution even though you emphatically state repeatedly that you could create a better deal in a week utterly laughable.

In short, you place all of these assertions with no backing in fact as the reason why a second vote cannot happen. Democracy isn't about what each of us thinks is 'fair', because what each of us thinks is 'fair' is different. There are rules in place that we all live by, that we all agree to live by, and we don't get to forgo those rules just because we think the outcome, or potential outcome, was or is 'unfair'.
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