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Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#31New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 11:48:53
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Ok, so I skimmed through and saw some errors I'll ignore (I'm Australian, not American).

Now, if the UK got some competent people to work on a Brexit deal rather than an anti-Brexit muppet like May or a socialist terror supporter like Corbyn, fine. I would say, sure, take the best Brexit deal that genuine, competent, pro Brexit negotiators could get back to the people if you want. I don't like it, but that at least is reasonable. This current effort where May deliberately runs Brexit into the ground should absolutely be unacceptable to anyone who thinks democracy has meaning.



Oh, an Australian..... that explains everything. There is no group of people anywhere else on Earth who would be more happy to see Britain go to hell in a handbasket than Australians.

Simply put, there are no competent people to handle Brexit. Those handling it are, actually, the best we've got. And if that doesn't tell you how bad things are here then nothing will.

We can't elect another government unless the current Prime Minister goes to the Queen (your Head of State) and requests permission to dissolve Parliament. The only way that could be circumvented is if the PM suffered a vote of No Confidence in the House. Corbyn Tried it and failed. The ERG.... a faction within the Conservative Party tried it and failed.

She has survived two votes of No Confidence for reasons that would take a week to explain here and you wouldn't listen to anyway. Like it or not (and we don't), we're stuck with her. And she won't step down until Brexit is delivered.

So much for your comment that she is anti-Brexit..!! She is playing a game deliberately intended to run down the clock to 29 March. She is the anti-democratic one She has delayed important votes, spent nugatory time going back to Brussels with absolutely nothing new to offer just so she can clip another couple of days off the remaining time and she has lied to Parliament.

She even tried to deny Parliament any vote on Brexit at all. She wanted to have the whole thing decided by Cabinet without requiring any approval of Parliament. Her intention was to load the Cabinet with hardline Brexiters and railroad the whole thing through. But a civilian activist named Gina Miller took the government to court.

R Miller vs The Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (2017)

She won and was condemned by Brexiters as a traitor.... because she wanted a democratic vote held in Parliament. The Tory tabloids described the judges who ruled on the decision thus:

Daily Mail: "Enemies Of The People"

The only reason Parliament has a say is because one woman was brave enough to stand up to the Government and challenge them in the courts. And for that, she has suffered hate mail, death threats, she's had to move home because her address was made public online and she had dog excrement put through her letterbox, windows broken and her car damaged by Brexiters who followed the Dail Mail story.

Do you approve of that kind of democracy, Bob...?

Pro-Remain MP Jo Cox was stabbed repeatedly and shot by a man who attacked her outside her constitutency office shouting "Britain First" and other pro-Brexit slogans.

The Murder of Jo Cox

Do you approve of that kind of democracy, Bob...?


May is the only Prime Minister in a history going back to the 13th century to have ever been found guilty of being in contempt of Parliament...!! If she had done that in a civil court she'd have gone to prison, but because there is no precedent for it in Parliament, and until now it has been so utterly unthinkable that any PM would do such a thing, there was no procedure in place to deal with that situation.

She survived by the skin of her teeth, but she did survive. And that's what we have at this time. A government hanging on in desperation, crossing days off the calendar just to get across the finishing line of 29 March.

May anti-Brexit...? Now I know for certain you haven't got a bloody clue of what you're talking about.
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#32New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 12:20:24
@Jennifer1984 Said

Oh, an Australian..... that explains everything. There is no group of people anywhere else on Earth who would be more happy to see Britain go to hell in a handbasket than Australians.


Bulls***. Not meaning to be rude, but I stopped reading here. Plenty of Australians died defending Britain in the past. Aussies (not the new breed of SJWs and socialists etc., that have infected the west) actually still care about our cultural roots. Yes, we hang on poms incessantly, but truth be told, many of us would fight for the UK again if required.

We want Britain to succeed. Those of us who take an interest in world affairs are worried about just how badly the UK is going off a cliff, and it's not Brexit causing the problem.

Again, all I'll say is, be honest. You want to overturn democracy. That is perfectly fine. I am well aware of the problems of a democratic system. But be honest. You think people got it wrong. I think the people got it right because the EU is a sinking ship that has proven repeatedly it does not care about the people.

Western culture is hardly perfect but it's worth protecting, and it s***s all over what Islam or China has to offer.
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#33New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 12:30:06
@nooneinparticular Said

Correct. Instead we elect officials to figure that stuff out for us. Thus we elect new people when they don't figure that stuff out to the public's satisfaction.

If you don't like the direction of Brexit because of the party in charge's handling of Brexit, then vote new people in. I was not attempting to conflate a single issue with political affiliation. I'm quite literally stating that if you hate the party, get them out.



Yeah.. see, this is why the west is screwed like a two dollar hooker (no offence). It is absolutely absurd to say once a political party is elected they can just do what they want and not care about the people. That's not democracy. That is, in fact, the system we have now. Two political parties that are not working in the interests of the people in a one party state. It's why Le Pen is gaining favor in France. It's why I hope like hell that UKIP and TR can get stuff sorted (and why I'm so pissed at Farage turning out to be another fraud).

We (westerners) stopped doing what is needed to ensure democracy. Who was it who said something about vigilance and freedom? We stopped looking and stopped caring. And we are slowly starting to pay, and the price is going to get a lot higher in the next few decades.

You, like Chaski and others, are smart enough to work out what happens when you take a number and keep subtracting from it.

All you need to do after that is work out that, contrary to popular opinion, two plus two does not equal five.
mrmhead On 58 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#34New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 13:43:36
@bob_the_fisherman Said

No. The problem with a do over is that it would now be predicated on years of an anti-democracy ruling elite that favour the EU doing all they can to screw the people. I'm really sorry but you don't get to screw the people over then tell them to vote again and get it right in a democracy.

I understand that that's how it's done now. The DNC and media have been desperate to make the glorious Trump election win invalid, and every attempt, no matter how sad, pathetic, illegal or desperate, has failed. And that is how it should be.

People are free to whine and cry. They can put their vadge hats on, march through the streets, call everyone that laughs at or disagrees with them a racist or a phobic or a moron or a misogynist or some other kind of bigot or fascist then take to the streets and beat people up for disagreeing with them and adopt Nazi slogans and tactics and call everyone a Nazi who will not embrace Nazism. All that's fine. It's psychotic and retarded, but it's ok (illegal, but ok).

What you do not get to do though is say that because of all of our violence or unending tanties or incessant whining or hysterical crying or bungling incompetence that the election result should be overturned.

It's a remarkably simple concept.


As pointed out above there was no move to invalidate the 2016 election. We're just pointing out that more voters voted for Hillary. ... and more people were at Obama's inauguration.


And your posts would be more tolerable without all the flowery hyperbole and lies.
mrmhead On 58 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#35New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 13:46:08
@Jennifer1984 Said


12 Million Turks Moving To Britain

People actually believed that 12 million migrants from Turkey were poised to come here at a moment's notice if Britain voted remain.


You're gonna need a bigger wall
nooneinparticular On September 04, 2020




, Hawaii
#36New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 13:52:26
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Yeah.. see, this is why the west is screwed like a two dollar hooker (no offence). It is absolutely absurd to say once a political party is elected they can just do what they want and not care about the people. That's not democracy. That is, in fact, the system we have now. Two political parties that are not working in the interests of the people in a one party state. It's why Le Pen is gaining favor in France. It's why I hope like hell that UKIP and TR can get stuff sorted (and why I'm so pissed at Farage turning out to be another fraud).

We (westerners) stopped doing what is needed to ensure democracy. Who was it who said something about vigilance and freedom? We stopped looking and stopped caring. And we are slowly starting to pay, and the price is going to get a lot higher in the next few decades.

You, like Chaski and others, are smart enough to work out what happens when you take a number and keep subtracting from it.

All you need to do after that is work out that, contrary to popular opinion, two plus two does not equal five.


I did not say that. In fact, I said the complete opposite of that. Re-election keeps a measure of accountability between a politician and their constituents. How is that in any way synonymous with saying 'once a political party gets elected they can do whatever they want'?
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#37New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 13:54:03
@Jennifer1984 Said

Now, Bob's offensive, bigoted, insulting and frankly disgraceful language in his earlier messages is nothing short of attempted bullying.




This is an online forum and you and I live on entirely different continents. Is bullying even a thing under such circumstances?

Could you please provide examples of me being "offensive, bigoted, insulting and frankly disgraceful"... I'm positively delighted by the description, but puzzled as to the cause. I fear that without knowing how I reached these lofty heights I may fail to attain them in future

Or to put it another way, there is nothing personal in what I say and it shouldn't be taken as personal. I do not dislike you. I do not know you. Attempting to bully someone in these circumstances is akin to ripping off a frog's legs to make a tadpole. Sure, it's fun and completely harmless, but it won't work.
mrmhead On 58 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#38New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 13:59:48
@bob_the_fisherman Said

In Australia in 1967 we held a referendum to give Aboriginal people voting rights. By the time it was done it was already a foregone conclusion due to consistent long running pressure, and got a yes vote.

Now, if the Australian government had then started adding on other things like making Aboriginal people kings with absolute power over whitey, then started handing them billions of dollars and millions of acres of land, then said, let's revote and people voted no, is that legitimate?


Still upset over our 15th amendment and the results of the 2008 election? ... in your own flowery-hyperbolic way...
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#39New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 14:12:00
@mrmhead Said

Still upset over our 15th amendment and the results of the 2008 election? ... in your own flowery-hyperbolic way...


I'm not American.
mrmhead On 58 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#40New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 14:21:01
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I'm not American.


You're passionate about other aspects of US politics.

And who are you? - does Bob know you're using his account and posting remarkably (for Bob) straight and concise responses?
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#41New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 14:22:29
@mrmhead Said

We're just pointing out that more voters voted for Swillary.


Which is irrelevant.


@mrmhead Said
And your posts would be more tolerable without all the flowery hyperbole


Possibly. However, that does remove some of the fun from the whole exercise. If I wanted to write academic standard rebuttals I'd just write a thesis in political theory. This is about having a bit of fun.

@mrmhead Said
and lies.


This I do not do in these political discussions. I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be. I'm not objective. Nor do I claim to be. I do not know all things. Nor do I claim to. But I don't lie because there's no point.
bob_the_fisherman On September 28, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#42New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 14:40:03
@mrmhead Said

You're passionate about other aspects of US politics.


Politics excites my autism.

@mrmhead Said
And who are you? - does Bob know you're using his account and posting remarkably (for Bob) straight and concise responses?


I always give "straight and concise responses." I just love to add some hyperbole cos it's fun.
Leon On about 6 hours ago




San Diego, California
#43New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 14:58:33


What about the fact that, in addition to referendums, we also elect our representatives? So, if we approve a referendum that hold one view but vote in a majority representatives that hold an opposing view, couldn’t one argue that the election of these representatives is a vote of rejection as much as the election of a referendum is a vote of approval?
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