The War in Ireland wasn't about religion

@mollymalone Said
I copied this post over from another thread.


Quote from Albion:-

I can discuss Northern Ireland because it is part of the United Kingdom my country where freedom of expression is allowed.Your argument seems to be unless you live through something your opinion is worthless .Did you live through the Holocaust......no? ok your opinions are invalid.The rose tinted view of Republicans in Ireland paint the troubles as a civil rights struggle ....**** simple fact... without religion added to other factors 'The Troubles' would never have happened ,read YOUR history books not over the last 80 but back hundreds of years RELIGION runs through all European history to deny it is beyond belief.

@mollymalone Said
The second troubles started with Civil Rights for all in NOrthern Ireland. Read my posts Mark is God

@mark_is_god Said
you can claim that.
i can claim it started due to the formation of the uvf.

claiming either doesn't make it true.

this is why it is still up for debate, and most likely always will be.

@mark_is_god Said
well as we have a new thread i'll just copy from the old one.

the beginning of the second spate of violence in northern ireland is still up for debate.
you could say the violence started when the modern UVF formed, and started going around killing people.

but i don't think it matters when it started.

and also claiming the troubles have nothing to do with religion is a tad naive. the original troubles may of started due to irish nationlists wanting independance.
and the second trouble may of started because of riots or formation of the UVF (dosen't really matter which)
but hell, religion has definitly became part of the troubles.
lets face it the majority of loyalists are protestant and the majority of republicans are catholic.
so as incorrect as it is, catholics are seen by some as enemys of loyalists, hence protestants are seen by some as enemys of republicans.


to sum up, the troubles may of started for political reasons. but religion has definitly became entangled with the troubles.

@mollymalone Said
Irish Republicans want Independence Yes not Nationlists - there is a difference.

@buffalobill90 Said
When religion is the actual cause of an armed conflict, it is usually due to a group of fundamentalists perceiving a threat to their source of religious authority, and subsequently demanding a reversion to traditional (often primitive) ways of life. Clearly such demands are met with fierce opposition, and violent conflict may ensue. An example of this is the 1979 Iranian revolution against the secular Shah of Iran. The troubles in Ireland were indeed primarily concerned with natial independence, and religion merely became a rallying point for opposing sides. Had religion been absent, a similar rallying point would have been used anyway.

@mollymalone Said
When was the UVF formed?

@bendover Said
I woulds argue that the troubles errupted in 1969 when the Unionist government denied civil rights to all the people of Northern Ireland to ensure that the wealthy Unionist retained their power and therefore secured the Union with Britain.

Just look at the titles held by MPs in Stormont in 1969. There were Captains, Majors, Sirs and Lords ruling the country. The decent people of Northern Ireland did not rule this country. The working class Unionists were as suppressed of their civil rights as Catholics but their Unionist masters liked to keep them uneducated and use that ignorance to keep them under their thumbs. Ordeinary working class unionists were given the jobs as lackies to the ruling class but told they were in a position of strenght and to be thankful to their UNionist masters for keeping the Republicans down.