Deep State Drugging Trump Ahead of Coup, Sources Say

@chaski Said

Ah... so when you make sweeping generalizations, we should understand that you really don't mean what you wrote.

That pretty much invalidates everything that you have written in this thread.

@nooneinparticular Said

You misunderstand. Nazism was the catalyst and Hitler was the authority figure... Both Nazism and Islam can be replaced with a whole plethora of ideology and the end result would still be the same. A bunch of people willing to kill for what they believe

@bob_the_fisherman Said

So your argument is that even without Hitler and Nazism Germany was going to commit genocide against Jews.

@nooneinparticular Said

People always fear and blame the other for all of their problems. How could they not? It's infinitely easier than confronting your own demons or examining the situation with a dispassionate eye. With that said, would Germany still have committed genocide against the Jews without Hitler or Nazism? Hard to say, but the signs were moving in that direction even before Hitler. Germany was in the throes of a massive economic depression before Hitler, and the Jews were commonly thought to be the only ones who seemed to be able to hold onto their buying power. Racism against the Jews in Germany didn't start with Hitler, it simply came to a boil under him. Would have come to a boil without him? Hard to say, but he definitely didn't birth anti-Semitic sentiments in Germany.

It should also be noted that while the Third Reich certainly killed a lot of Jews, they also killed many many other types of people in significant numbers as well in their famous concentration camps. Would they have targeted Jews without their ideology? Impossible to predict, but their actions clearly demonstrate that their willingness to kill went far beyond just the Jews.

Instead of 'kill the Jew', it becomes 'kill the person with all the power and wealth' who just happens to be a Jew. In either case you get a dead Jew, the only difference is the motivation.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

So in other words genocide in Germany and the holocaust were inevitable and in no way attributable to Hitler or Nazism. You are naturally free to believe this, but it does seem a little bit... unusual.

@nooneinparticular Said

Genocide and, specifically, the holocaust? Not necessarily, but a revolution would have been the likely outcome considering the state of Germany at the end of World War 1. Revolutions typically result in large amounts of death. Perhaps we could argue that a revolution wouldn't have spread beyond the borders of Germany, although given that massive amounts of debt was being forced upon Germany at the time the chances that it wouldn't have spread or result in international war are not an impossibility either.

Death is death. We could perhaps argue that a racial war against the Jews wouldn't have happened without Hitler. As I have said already it's impossible to predict. But the idea that Germany wouldn't have become a pool of death without Hitler is one I don't find particularly compelling.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

So let me see if I understand your position.

You are claiming that the holocaust might not have happened had it not been for Nazism but Nazism is in no way responsible for the holocaust.

Does that aptly describe your position?

@bob_the_fisherman Said

It is obvious that I meant every German was a Nazi to everyone who does not bother to think about things.

@chaski Said

And it is also obvious that I wasn't just referring to your massively idiot generalization about Germans.

That's the other thing you tend to do... try to boil a statement down to one tiny part of its meaning. It is actually pretty funny how your arguments shift from massive generalizations to massive simplifications...each time trying to avoid the point(s) that others are making.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Not at all. You said I make sweeping generalisations and I noted that people read it that way if they choose to or are incapable of inference. I see no need to add constant qualifiers to every comment I make that describes the part of a whole when I am obviously not talking of the whole. I expect that people I discuss things with have some capacity to reason and do not need every minute detail expounded for them. If you think people lack basic logic skills I suppose I could try to accommodate their failings, except I probably couldn't be bothered.

@chaski Said

Not at all. I was just pointing out a habit of yours to make sweeping generalizations...which you frequently do.

@nooneinparticular Said

Not at all. You fail to separate the holocaust, the genocide of the Jews during World War 2, with the socioeconomic realities of Germany at the time. I am claiming that the holocaust might not have happened had it not been for Hitler but Nazism is not responsible for the root problems that allowed Hitler to rise to power in the first place. Without an addressing of those root problems, another scenario that results in death would have most likely taken place.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

I am claiming that the holocaust Islamic terror might not have happened had it not been for Hitler Muhammad.

@chaski Said

Sort of like Christian atrocities would not have occurred if it weren't for Jesus?

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Yes, except that where Christians commit atrocities despite what Jesus said, Muslims commit atrocities of the kind Muhammad said they should commit.