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shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#76New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 11:08:41
@shinobinoz Said

You seem to want the religion part to be gone without any of it's effects being accounted for (prior & during). Take that away too & I strongly believe the relationship would have been much better.


Europe at the time was overpopulated, major towns and cities were heavily polluted, many lived in poverty with no hope of change, most of the forests had been destroyed along with much of the wildlife. Then come reports of this wonderful new land blanketed with forests as far as the eye can see. It had pure water teaming with fish. Forests teaming with game. Even the poor now had the chance to improve their lives, whilst merchants saw the chance to grow rich beyond their wildest dreams. All that stood in their way were the native peoples. In order for the Europeans to get what they wanted they had to take from the native peoples. This would have been true regardless of whether or not the Europeans believed in God or if they believed their was no God. So how exactly would the relationship have been much better?

The atheist Europeans would still have brought with them devastating diseases such as smallpox, measles, influenza, and bubonic plague. These diseases killed up to 90% of the native population in some areas. Would this have endeared the Europeans to the indigenous peoples? Would this have ensured a good relationship?

Atheist or not history, and human nature, strongly suggests that the Europeans would have taken the land from the native peoples. How you can invade someone else's land and still have a positive relationship with them i simply dont know. But if you think such a thing is possible then fair enough. That's your opinion.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#77New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 16:06:14
@shadowen Said

Europe at the time was overpopulated, major towns and cities were heavily polluted, many lived in poverty with no hope of change, most of the forests had been destroyed along with much of the wildlife. Then come reports of this wonderful new land blanketed with forests as far as the eye can see. It had pure water teaming with fish. Forests teaming with game. Even the poor now had the chance to improve their lives, whilst merchants saw the chance to grow rich beyond their wildest dreams. All that stood in their way were the native peoples. In order for the Europeans to get what they wanted they had to take from the native peoples. This would have been true regardless of whether or not the Europeans believed in God or if they believed their was no God. So how exactly would the relationship have been much better?

The atheist Europeans would still have brought with them devastating diseases such as smallpox, measles, influenza, and bubonic plague. These diseases killed up to 90% of the native population in some areas. Would this have endeared the Europeans to the indigenous peoples? Would this have ensured a good relationship?

Atheist or not history, and human nature, strongly suggests that the Europeans would have taken the land from the native peoples. How you can invade someone else's land and still have a positive relationship with them i simply dont know. But if you think such a thing is possible then fair enough. That's your opinion.


Depends. Treaties were made that were broken because of religious dogma. Without the religion forcings (I'm thinking here of generation after generation of brainwashing) I believe that "old world peoples" would have a better understanding with "new world peoples"
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#78New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 16:07:57
@shadowen Said

The atheist Europeans would still have brought with them devastating diseases such as smallpox, measles, influenza, and bubonic plague. These diseases killed up to 90% of the native population in some areas. Would this have endeared the Europeans to the indigenous peoples? Would this have ensured a good relationship?



Maybe if everyone (including those in Europe) had been atheists, they would have looked for and found cures to diseases sooner, instead of spending centuries believing superstitious nonsense like diseases were evil spirits or punishments from god/gods. Ant then they wouldn't have brought diseases with them and/or would have brought the medicines with them.



We'll never know.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#79New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 16:33:43
@chaski Said

Maybe if everyone (including those in Europe) had been atheists, they would have looked for and found cures to diseases sooner, instead of spending centuries believing superstitious nonsense like diseases were evil spirits or punishments from god/gods. Ant then they wouldn't have brought diseases with them and/or would have brought the medicines with them.



We'll never know.


And then there's the suppression of science by religion in order to maintain the status quo.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#80New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 16:48:20
@mrmhead Said

And then there's the suppression of science by religion in order to maintain the status quo.



Don't start with those lies about the Earth not being the center of the solar system, galaxy, universe...

The earth is the center of the Universe!

And hell is below us...so hell is really the center of the universe...and is super hot...and I don't mean like the Kardashian girls.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#81New Post! Jan 07, 2017 @ 23:33:14
@chaski Said

Don't start with those lies about the Earth not being the center of the solar system, galaxy, universe...

The earth is the center of the Universe!

And hell is below us...so hell is really the center of the universe...and is super hot...and I don't mean like the Kardashian girls.


You forgot it's flat too dammit!
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#82New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 00:22:05
@chaski Said

Don't start with those lies about the Earth not being the center of the solar system, galaxy, universe...

The earth is the center of the Universe!

And hell is below us...so hell is really the center of the universe...and is super hot...and I don't mean like the Kardashian girls.



shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#83New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:04:22
@shinobinoz Said

Depends. Treaties were made that were broken because of religious dogma.

Evidence?
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#84New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:07:09
@shinobinoz Said

I believe that "old world peoples" would have a better understanding with "new world peoples"


Either way they would have been ravaged by introduced disease. Either way they would have been forced off their lands etc etc etc
shadowen On March 22, 2024




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#85New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:13:14
Anyway, getting back on topic. Your first comment in relation to the JW video was "Best to leave others out of their teachings & concentrate solely on them selves. Wars are started on much lesser things"

To me that sounds like you are saying that they should keep their thoughts to themselves when surely (with a few exceptions) people should be able to publicly express their views regardless of what others think about them. You also seem to be suggesting that the JW's expressing their opinion is dangerous and could lead to war!

By the way when you say "Wars are started on much lesser things" i would be curious as to what wars you are referring to.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#86New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:21:18
@shadowen Said

By the way when you say "Wars are started on much lesser things" i would be curious as to what wars you are referring to.



A soccer game....maybe.
DiscordTiger On December 04, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#87New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:41:52
Bats***.

Bats*** started a war in South America.

ETA: it could have been bird s***. It was definitely s*** from a flying animal though.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#88New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:50:49
@shadowen Said

Evidence?


Fairly decent explanation.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#89New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:51:54
@shadowen Said

Either way they would have been ravaged by introduced disease. Either way they would have been forced off their lands etc etc etc


You so negative about white folks!
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#90New Post! Jan 08, 2017 @ 04:54:13
@shadowen Said

Anyway, getting back on topic. Your first comment in relation to the JW video was "Best to leave others out of their teachings & concentrate solely on them selves. Wars are started on much lesser things"

To me that sounds like you are saying that they should keep their thoughts to themselves when surely (with a few exceptions) people should be able to publicly express their views regardless of what others think about them. You also seem to be suggesting that the JW's expressing their opinion is dangerous and could lead to war!

By the way when you say "Wars are started on much lesser things" i would be curious as to what wars you are referring to.


Kind of a stretch from leaving others out of their teachings & concentrating on living their good points opposed to expressing opinion don't you think?
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