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chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#31New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 16:06:45
@shadowen Said

Obviously you missed the point. The discussion was/is to do with religion being the cause/starting point of wars. So whether the leader was religious or not isnt relevant unless you can show that their religious beliefs are what drove them to war.



Oh so you get to put up a partial list of "the bloodiest leaders of the past 100 years", but I don't.

Good debating technique.




.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#32New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 16:08:22
@shadowen Said

Obviously you missed the point.


No I didn't.

I was responding directly to your post #22.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#33New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 16:11:44
@shadowen Said

So what. Using Stalin as the example, by the time he came to power he was an entrenched "militaristic atheist". He initiated a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property, to persecute and kill church officials and followers of various Christian churches. For example, in the 1930's (under Stalin) the Russian Orthodox Church went from 50,000 to 500 open and operating churches. In the purges of 1937/38 over 100,000 Russian Orthodox clergy were shot. In all some 9-30 million people died as a direct result of Stalin's policies (not including the 6-8 million who died in the great famine). None of these policies were motivated by religious beliefs, but many were driven by Stalin's deep seated hatred of any form of religion.


Nice stats

As a colonial leader of Belgium, Leopold II was famous for essentially enslaving and killing nearly 15 million Congolese under the guise of his Congo Free State...resulting in him being considered by many to be the 3rd of 25 of History’s Deadliest Dictators....and he was a Christian.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#34New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 16:22:13
@shadowen Said

Obviously you missed the point. The discussion was/is to do with religion being the cause/starting point of wars. So whether the leader was religious or not isnt relevant unless you can show that their religious beliefs are what drove them to war.


That is not what your post #22 was about.

@shadowen Said

So what. Using Stalin as the example, by the time he came to power he was an entrenched "militaristic atheist"..



Basically your argument is: "Stalin did everything he did specifically because of his atheist belief system, but when the rulers who did similar things where Christians, their christian belief system had no impact on them."
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#35New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 23:12:55
@shadowen Said

It's interesting to look at some of the bloodiest leaders of the past 100 years.

Mao Zedong...communist who persecuted Christians. Esp during the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution.
Joesph Stalin...Marxist. Initiated a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property and was responsible for the persecution and murder of church officials.
Adolf Hitler...despised mainstream Christianity and sought to replace it with national socialism.
Robert Mugabe...strongly influenced by Marxism-Leninism
Kim Jong-Il...communist (no 'Christian dogma' here)
Idi Amin Dada...murderously anti Christian
Vladimir Lenin...consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs, and actively encouraged atheism.
Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev...see above
Enver Pasha...anti Christian
Ho Chi Minh...anti Christian
Pol Pot...anti Christian
Saddam Hussein...secular socialist
Yahya Khan...Muslim etc etc etc


No reason at all for these despots to fear religion I'm sure..........
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#36New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 23:13:25
@shadowen Said

Evidence?


Manifest Destiny.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#37New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 23:14:47
@shadowen Said

By 'forcing' you seem to mean giving voice to. So others can express their views but not religions?


You have a very twisted way with words. Try them without reading them your or my supposed bias.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#38New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 23:18:56
@shadowen Said

The (effectively English) British empire was created and expanded due to primarily economic/trade motives. One only has to look at the power and influence of British chartered companies btw the 16th and 19th centuries to see evidence of this.


You skip the religious forcings.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#39New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 23:19:54
@shadowen Said

So you have gone from religions cause wars "Quite often sadly" to "Western society for the most part is based on christian dogma" and so (according to you) any conflict involving western societies is the fault of Christianity!!! Now you are saying "None religious in nature from what I know" when asked to give an example of a conflict driven/caused by religion! Amazing!


None First Nation. Christianity? Hell yeah.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#40New Post! Jan 04, 2017 @ 02:00:58
@shinobinoz Said

Manifest Destiny.


So yet again you make a statement that you present as fact. I ask for evidence and you decline to give any.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#41New Post! Jan 04, 2017 @ 02:03:41
@shinobinoz Said

None First Nation. Christianity? Hell yeah.


Feel free to give examples. As for the native peoples of the Americas....they were constantly in conflict with one another. Something Europeans were able to exploit.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#42New Post! Jan 04, 2017 @ 02:11:12
@shinobinoz Said

You have a very twisted way with words. Try them without reading them your or my supposed bias.


I'll make it simple for you. When same sex marriages were illegal people who felt this shouldnt be the case expressed their views, protested, engaged in media campaigns etc all with the aim of changing the law. And they succeeded. Now i am sure you think they were right to do so. But you say that those who hold opposing views should "leave others out of their teachings & concentrate solely on them selves". This is blatant hypocrisy. Those who advocated same sex marriage didnt leave others out of their 'teachings'. They didnt concentrate solely on themselves. So for you it would appear that if you hold a view to which to subscribe then make as much noise as you can. If they dont you seem to be saying they should shut up and not publicly express their views.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#43New Post! Jan 04, 2017 @ 02:18:14
Here's another example for you. You believe that the use of native mascots is offensive and a problem. Same with names that reference native people eg the 'redskins'. Most followers of the Washington team, and many who follow the NFL in general, dont appear to agree with you. I am sure a number of them would feel that people like you are trying to force their views upon them and that they would think you should leave them out of your 'teachings' and 'concentrate solely on yourself'. But of course you have the right to express your views and work for change, just as the JW's have.
chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#44New Post! Jan 04, 2017 @ 02:18:20
@shadowen Said

Those who advocated same sex marriage didnt leave others out of their 'teachings'. They didnt concentrate solely on themselves.


You are wrong.

People who advocated same sex marriage did not try to change how people who do not advocated same sex marriage live their lives.

They only wanted people who do not advocated same sex marriage to mind their own personal business and not dictate to People who advocated same sex marriage how they live their lives.

People who advocated same sex marriage do not tell people who do not advocated same sex marriage that they are not allowed to get married.

However, people who do not advocated same sex marriage (oddly) are apparently obsessed with People who advocated same sex marriage and don't want them to get married.

Marriage must be a pretty horrible thing...

I'm sure this is all very complicated for you Shadowen, but however complicated it is, the simple truth is that homosexuals do not go around trying to stop heterosexuals from getting marries... while some heterosexuals seem to be obsessed with what homosexual do or do not do.
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