The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Religion & Philosophy

The JW Cult

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: << · 1 2 3 4 ...9 10 11 · >>
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#16New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:37:45
@shadowen Said

Actually it's all the rage to blame conflict on religion.

So give me some examples over the past 100 years or so where religion has been the root cause of a conflict. I gave examples from 1900-1948 (i was going to cover the whole century but didnt feel it necessary to do so).


Western society for the most part is based on christian dogma & responsible directly for the ills that fell from that.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#17New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:38:46
@shadowen Said

Bigot - a person who has strong, UNREASONABLE beliefs and who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life.

This actually seems a pretty good definition of the liberal left!

The reality is that bigotry is largely a matter of perspective. One person may consider another a bigot whilst someone else wont. Indeed that other person may consider the first to be a bigot, for who defines what is "unreasonable"? Opps, silly me, the left do!


Sounds like some personal issues to me.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#18New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:50:40
@shinobinoz Said

Where have I stated any of this?


"Best to leave others out of their teachings & concentrate solely on them selves"

To me that reads as "keep your views to yourself" (unless your views are the same as mine!)
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#19New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:55:35
@shinobinoz Said

Western society for the most part is based on christian dogma & responsible directly for the ills that fell from that.


Or put another way....you cant give one single example!

By the way, throughout human history there have been wars. Conflict has occurred in all societies be they western or otherwise. For example, in the Americas native tribes were often in conflict with one another long before Europeans arrived...
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#20New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:57:45
@shadowen Said

"Best to leave others out of their teachings & concentrate solely on them selves"

To me that reads as "keep your views to yourself" (unless your views are the same as mine!)


Not sure what your views are. Mine is that religions should not focus on forcing their beliefs on others.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#21New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 04:59:48
@shadowen Said

Or put another way....you cant give one single example!

By the way, throughout human history there have been wars. Conflict has occurred in all societies be they western or otherwise. For example, in the Americas native tribes were often in conflict with one another long before Europeans arrived...


None religious in nature from what I know. The atrocities committed in creation of this country as well as your own were based on religious dogma. It still has negative results to this day.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#22New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 05:45:02
It's interesting to look at some of the bloodiest leaders of the past 100 years.

Mao Zedong...communist who persecuted Christians. Esp during the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution.
Joesph Stalin...Marxist. Initiated a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property and was responsible for the persecution and murder of church officials.
Adolf Hitler...despised mainstream Christianity and sought to replace it with national socialism.
Robert Mugabe...strongly influenced by Marxism-Leninism
Kim Jong-Il...communist (no 'Christian dogma' here)
Idi Amin Dada...murderously anti Christian
Vladimir Lenin...consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs, and actively encouraged atheism.
Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev...see above
Enver Pasha...anti Christian
Ho Chi Minh...anti Christian
Pol Pot...anti Christian
Saddam Hussein...secular socialist
Yahya Khan...Muslim etc etc etc
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#23New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 05:45:41
@shinobinoz Said

None religious in nature from what I know. The atrocities committed in creation of this country as well as your own were based on religious dogma. It still has negative results to this day.

Evidence?
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#24New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 05:50:18
@shinobinoz Said

Not sure what your views are. Mine is that religions should not focus on forcing their beliefs on others.


By 'forcing' you seem to mean giving voice to. So others can express their views but not religions?
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#25New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 06:05:41
The (effectively English) British empire was created and expanded due to primarily economic/trade motives. One only has to look at the power and influence of British chartered companies btw the 16th and 19th centuries to see evidence of this.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#26New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 06:13:31


So you have gone from religions cause wars "Quite often sadly" to "Western society for the most part is based on christian dogma" and so (according to you) any conflict involving western societies is the fault of Christianity!!! Now you are saying "None religious in nature from what I know" when asked to give an example of a conflict driven/caused by religion! Amazing!
chaski On about 5 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#27New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 06:28:56
@shadowen Said


It's interesting to look at some of the bloodiest leaders of the past 100 years.



You left out Harry S. Truman...christian (Baptist)... 129,000 people killed in a 3 day period.

And if we're going for say the top 20 "bloodiest" we should add (ant note their religions)..

Chiang Kai-shek, Methodist

Kaiser Wilhelm II, Lutheranism

Yakubu Gowon, Christian

Enver Pasha, Sunni Islam

Yahya Khan, Islam

Leopold II of Belgium, Catholic

Nicholas II of Russia, Russain Orthodox

More recently one could argue that George W Bush, Methodist, could be added (hey...two wars, one of which is the longest in American history... etc)
chaski On about 5 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#28New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 06:50:42
@shadowen Said

It's interesting to look at some of the bloodiest leaders of the past 100 years.

Robert Mugabe...strongly influenced by Marxism-Leninism


@chaski Said

And if we're going for say the top 20 "bloodiest" we should add (ant note their religions)..


Robert Mugabe was a Catholic.

We should probably also note that Joesph Stalin was raised Russian Orthodox and attended a Russian Orthodox seminary, and Pol Pot was educated in a Buddhist monastery.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#29New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 10:14:23
@chaski Said

And if we're going for say the top 20 "bloodiest" we should add (ant note their religions)...



Obviously you missed the point. The discussion was/is to do with religion being the cause/starting point of wars. So whether the leader was religious or not isnt relevant unless you can show that their religious beliefs are what drove them to war.

Leopold II for example was driven not by any religious beliefs but rather by greed, and the desire for power and recognition. He was the founder and sole owner of the Congo Free State which he exploited mercilessly. Note: it was Christian missionaries who first alerted the world to the atrocities being committed in the Congo, and it was the sustained pressure of missionaries, churches, The UK Government and most importantly of all the Belgium Catholic Party and the Belgian Labour Party that eventually forced Leopold II to hand over control of the Congo to the government.

I assume you included Kaiser Wilhelm II primarily as he was leader of Germany when the Great War broke out. By singling out the Kaiser and Czar Nicholas II you seem to imply that Germany and Russia were the ones who were responsible for the Great War. This is simply untrue. Yes both nations played their part but to varying degrees so too did Austria, Serbia, France and the UK. It is infact a matter of historical record that Kaiser Wilhelm II tried to avoid war. This is evidenced in his communications with Czar Nicholas II (who also wished to avoid war) and also in his instructions (after Serbia's reply to the Austrian ultimatum) telling Austria that there was no longer any justification for war and that they should cease further action against the Serbs. The reality is that the actions (and inaction) of both the Kaiser and the Czar were not influenced by, never mind driven by, any religious beliefs. Instead they were driven by secular issues.

Anyway, cant be bothered going through the rest you named.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#30New Post! Jan 03, 2017 @ 10:47:07
@chaski Said

Robert Mugabe was a Catholic.

We should probably also note that Joesph Stalin was raised Russian Orthodox and attended a Russian Orthodox seminary, and Pol Pot was educated in a Buddhist monastery.


So what. Using Stalin as the example, by the time he came to power he was an entrenched "militaristic atheist". He initiated a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property, to persecute and kill church officials and followers of various Christian churches. For example, in the 1930's (under Stalin) the Russian Orthodox Church went from 50,000 to 500 open and operating churches. In the purges of 1937/38 over 100,000 Russian Orthodox clergy were shot. In all some 9-30 million people died as a direct result of Stalin's policies (not including the 6-8 million who died in the great famine). None of these policies were motivated by religious beliefs, but many were driven by Stalin's deep seated hatred of any form of religion.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: << · 1 2 3 4 ...9 10 11 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Sat Mar 23, 2013 @ 10:54
3 371
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Mon Sep 08, 2014 @ 11:37
3 322
New posts   Religion
Sun May 28, 2006 @ 10:22
1 612
New posts   Poetry
Thu Aug 13, 2009 @ 14:46
1 604
New posts   US Election 2012
Sun Aug 05, 2012 @ 23:55
53 3476