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America is NOT a democracy

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adrinachrome On April 04, 2023




Fukitall, Arizona
#91New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 18:21:03
@jonnythan Said
Um, the poular vote in each state is what determines the electoral vote.

You should learn about the process. Popular vote in each state determines that state's winner. Overall popular vote across the whole nation is meaningless.


OK, always was confused about that...So only Americans from certain states have a 'real' vote then? I mean right? Since the presidential candidates try for a combination of states that have the highest amount of electors?
nothingtodo On September 21, 2010

Deleted



,
#92New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 18:22:20
@jonnythan Said
Overall popular vote across the whole nation is meaningless.


and that is messed up - every vote doesn't count.
adrinachrome On April 04, 2023




Fukitall, Arizona
#93New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 18:29:10
@nothingtodo Said
and that is messed up - every vote doesn't count.


Yes it is definitely.
Viva la revolution?
It is however not as bleak as I had thought.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#94New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 18:53:58
@nothingtodo Said
and that is messed up - every vote doesn't count.


That is totally untrue. Every vote does count - in each state.

The United States is a federal republic. It's not a nationwide democracy. It's based on the fundamental principle that individual states are important semi-autonomous governing bodies.

The Electoral College system skews the national popular vote slightly to give less-populated states a bit more weight per vote than more-populated states. The United States Congress is set up the exact same way. The Electoral College mirrors the US Congress in terms of representation.

Every vote counts - in your state.
bobbimay On February 11, 2024




Tucson, Arizona
#95New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 19:10:06
@nothingtodo Said
and that is messed up - every vote doesn't count.


https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#mystate
actually... it depends on how your state counts the vote...

Is my vote for President and Vice President meaningful in the Electoral College system?

Yes, within your State your vote has a great deal of significance. Under the Electoral College system, we do not elect the President and Vice President through a direct nation-wide vote. The Presidential election is decided by the combined results of 51 State elections (in this context, the term "State" includes DC).
The founders of the nation devised the Electoral College system as part of their plan to share power between the States and the national government. Under the Federal system adopted in the U.S. Constitution,..... It is possible that an elector could ignore the results of the popular vote, but that occurs very rarely. Your vote helps decide which candidate receives your State's electoral votes....

the nation-wide popular vote has no legal significance. As a result, it is possible that the electoral votes awarded on the basis of State elections could produce a different result than the nation-wide popular vote. Nevertheless, the individual citizen's vote is important to the outcome of each State election.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#96New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 19:13:29
As "possible" as the "faithless elector" scenario is, it's rare enough that it's never come close to having any effect whatsoever on a Presidential vote. Ever. And if it did, the elector would be drawn and quartered.
the7thdimension On October 22, 2009




los angeles, California
#97New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 21:46:57
@jonnythan Said
That is totally untrue. Every vote does count - in each state.

The United States is a federal republic. It's not a nationwide democracy. It's based on the fundamental principle that individual states are important semi-autonomous governing bodies.

The Electoral College system skews the national popular vote slightly to give less-populated states a bit more weight per vote than more-populated states. The United States Congress is set up the exact same way. The Electoral College mirrors the US Congress in terms of representation.

Every vote counts - in your state.


none of this even matters, WE dont vote for our presidents because WE aren't a national party. the heads of the dnp and rnp decide who their electee will be. the people's votes are for show. the media throws this at us to keep us under the impression that we are a democracy. No, we aren't actually a democracy, but we sure are conditioned to think like we are.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#98New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 22:08:31
Um, I think you should read up on the electoral process. The party does not decide the President. The only thing each party can decide is who is allowed to run under their party name.
plainoldme On January 16, 2011




Maryborough, Australia
#99New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 22:30:44
@jonnythan Said
What elections are those?

Turnout in mid-term elections is always low. Turnout in presidential elections is usually over 50%.

So your statement is more accurately put "70% of your citizens don't vote [in mid-term elections]"


Thanks for that, but either way it still is low.
Figures are for those that are registered to vote and does not include those that could vote but ain't registered?

In Oz it is compulsory and turnout is 98%.(of all people who are old enough to vote).

My point is that to have a true democratic system you need more people to be involved in the voting process.
annski729 On July 24, 2016




, United States (general)
#100New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 22:36:15
@plainoldme Said
Thanks for that, but either way it still is low.
Figures are for those that are registered to vote and does not include those that could vote but ain't registered?

In Oz it is compulsory and turnout is 98%.(of all people who are old enough to vote).

My point is that to have a true democratic system you need more people to be involved in the voting process.


Are all elections compulsory? If not, what are the turnout rates for those which are not? (Just out of curiosity)

Compulsory voting seems like a bad idea to me.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#101New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 22:50:11
@plainoldme Said
Thanks for that, but either way it still is low.
Figures are for those that are registered to vote and does not include those that could vote but ain't registered?

In Oz it is compulsory and turnout is 98%.(of all people who are old enough to vote).

My point is that to have a true democratic system you need more people to be involved in the voting process.


The numbers are among people eligible to vote, registered or not. In 2004, about 57% of Americans old enough to vote did so.

Compulsory voting isn't that great, by the way. People who are ignorant and apathetic are generally better off not voting.
plainoldme On January 16, 2011




Maryborough, Australia
#102New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 23:19:18
@annski729 Said
Are all elections compulsory? If not, what are the turnout rates for those which are not? (Just out of curiosity)

Compulsory voting seems like a bad idea to me.


Yes, at all levels.

It means that every person's opinion is valued and can make a diference.
People tend to take more interest in what is going on.

If you don't want to exercise your vote just stuff up your voting card (or leave it blank).

We don't have all the fanfare that you guys appear to have.

Our Prime Minister declares a federal election and one month later it is all over. Same with State and local government.

We vote for party (or independants) and those that get in pick the Prime Minister. Labour won this time , kicking out Bush's buddy Liberal's John Howard, and Kevin is now in.

The Prime Minister really has no greater power than any other elected representative - they vote on everything. This ensures it is pretty much the peoples choice.
Partly why Liberal got ousted is because of our troops is Iraq. Hence why we are now beginning to pull out - its what the people wanted.
plainoldme On January 16, 2011




Maryborough, Australia
#103New Post! Jul 28, 2008 @ 23:22:38
Forgot to add, Smaller parties and independants tend to keep them on the straight and narrow.
They tend to need their vote to get things through parliament.
As one small party used to say " Keep the bastards honest"
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#105New Post! Jul 29, 2008 @ 03:04:17
@the7thdimension Said
i didn't say that the party chooses the president. the respective parties choose the candidates, and that's plenty. the parties really choose who has a shot at president AT ALL! when you confine the possibilities to a few handpicked politicians that will most likely serving a specific agenda and watching out for peoples' toes you miss the point of election by the people. sure the people elect eventually, but only after they have been presented a bunch of manchurian candidates.


Anyone who wants to run can.

How do you explain the fact that we typically have 10-15 candidates per party declare their intent to run?

They don't get the approval of the party. They get their funding together, get their committees together, and declare their intent to run. The media and the people do the rest.
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