Vegan Myths

Short answer: because I want bob and others to answer them.

Long answer: I don't want them to avoid every question that might create cognitive dissonance. Furthermore, bob's responses are "answers" in the sense that he is responding to a question. But they are not "answers" in the sense of answering within the question's frame of reference (some ways to do so: yes, no, I don't know, yes but, no but, etc). Instead of answering within the frame of reference, then pointing out that the framework is variable, bob likes to skip straight to pointing out that the framework is variable. But since I make no such claim for objectivity, bob's doing so only serves to avoid the question.

If he admitted that he was selfish in relation to animals, I would not make any ethical inferences from it. I just have noticed that bob seems to value the frame of reference I've laid out, including the definition of selfish and the reference to animals. If he truly didn't care (like he claims) then he should have no problem admitting that he is selfish with reference to animals (using the aforementioned definition).

If you want to understand what bob is doing, imagine that you're trying to ask someone questions, and instead of answering the questions, they just go into a long existential discussion of why your question is not objective.



I'm not seeking reassurance in the common sense of seeking to have confidence restored. But if you want to know why I asked the non-bobs about their views, it's because I want to know what I should be addressing. For example, I provided a critique of the "what is natural is good" idea that people have been using. Bob provided a further critique of the "what is natural is good" idea. I'm wondering if you all agree with these critiques, or whether we need to discuss them more.



This logic would be difficult to prove a posteriori. That aside, I am confident in my beliefs and arguments, and I do not desire "back up" in the sense that (I think) you mean it.



First, know that I am not likely to accept your question if I do not accept the claim that "if people want to eat meat they should be allowed to".

Second, would you accept this kind appeal if it were made with respect to human murder?

There seem to be two parts to your question, so let me answer them both.

Why can't I "accept everybody is different?"

I do accept the observation that everybody is different. If you meant "accept" in the sense of not intervening in people's beliefs and actions, then my reason is that I don't want to sit idly by if someone is creating pain, inhibiting pleasure, or taking away self-determination from someone else, whether it be a human victim or an animal victim.

Why can't I accept that "if people want to eat meat they should be allowed to?"

What do you mean by "should"?



I laughed when I read this, so to my credit I think both non-bob and non-7ravis is funny.



Crap! I thought I had called off the mercenary that's making you have this discussion. I'm making the call now.

If by "force" you mean "try to persuade" then yes, I am "forcing" my beliefs on you. But since my mercenary is now called off, I think that this use of "force" distorts the freedom you still retain. If you "feel" like I'm forcing my beliefs on you, it's probably because they are making you question yourself. And I'm sorry, but I do want people to look critically at their relationship with animals.



Bob loves it.

Don't flatter yourself. I also didn't respond to the person who wrote "meat yummy vegan dummy".

Well I guess that means I've out-thought you...now your reasoning just can't stand up to the fact that if we look at the bigger picture, you aren't really trying to change the omnivores way of eating...you're trying to take your views out on humans alone instead of trying to get all omnivores to "change their ways".

In a way, it's like being racist. You can't target one group in a populace and try to change them. If you really want change you need to go against the whole populace.

Oh wait, this might be too "outside of the box" thinking for you.

I'M MAKING THE CALL NOW
I WANT

God 7ravis you sound like a little kid who is having a tantrum because he doesn't have a letter T on his keyboard!

I wish you wouldn't join all the posts together like that, it bores me a bit, don't mean that in a rude way, and oh I'm not flattering myself either but still! I'll need to come back to this as my dinner is getting cold. It's chicken, and I've been a veggie for 20 years, how bizarre is that?!

Non-7(T)ravis - I hope no pvc or cotton was killed just so you could look pretty in your apron?!

wouldnt mind seriously, i wish i had the willpower to go vegan again, i have been veggie for about 22 years though, so i am trying, i source cruelty free products, no leather, so on, so i am trying and i have never felt so healthy and energetic ,as when i was vegan, and it aint all nuts and seeds and depriving yourself, i love me food, and theres so many alternatives, i just cant get me head around still eating animals in this day and age, when theres no need to, its not as if we have to go and hunt for our food anymore, dont make sense in my head, its like aw look kids look at the little baby lambs, then mom whats for tea, oh lamb , kids aint got a clue, but thats my decision in the end, i dont preach just have my own view on things, does'nt make you wrong to eat meat, its a choice x

As you keep insisting that everyone answers your questions, and asks them again because you don't like the answers you originally got, and my personal favourite when you posted your 'post' again just incase anyone missed it the first time, don't you think YOU are the one flattering YOURSELF?

keep ya wig on gal

I was veggie for 20 years, not for ethical reasons just out of the blue I couldn't face the thought of eating meat etc.
What I find annoying is those who feel the need to re-educate meat eaters, and by re-educating I mean harping on CONSTANTLY in a self righteous manner, and won't accept peoples right to eat meat. I mean it is legal right?
If a veggie/vegan knows a meat eater won't change their opinion why go on about it?
Also why keep asking the same question over and over just because you don't agree with the answer.
Anyway before you became boring, I mean vegan, think of all the little lambs you did eat you murderer!

no i never preach ever, never have, and yeah its wrong to try and convert folk, its everyones choice, but i tell you, i hardly tell anyone i am veggie, they try and convert me lol all the time, i just yawn, i had one bloke say, you'll be dead by the time your 30, braindead t*** my sons a strapping 20 year old veggie,well almost he as the odd burger, bacon butty, but its his choice aint it, yeah i ate meat when i was little, so yes me a murderer, my hub promised a cow he wouldnt eat his family, in a field in the lakes, and you know what he aint he was pissed when we met we was both veggie, which is lucky, i ain a healthy veggie,and i did have to have b12 injections, but my choice, murderering ruby

1. Meaningless example - vegans cannot "force" you to be vegan via an online forum. Get a grip.

2. Most pet owners have no difficulty seeing their pets, despite the fact that they are legal property, as individuals, as someones.


rogY