The debt ceiling

@Leon Said


Yes, but they can still collapse under the weight of debt. This is all I was using the analogy for.

@Leon Said

If it cannot be done, then it would be time to re-examine your ideology, wouldn't it? Some things just aren't meant to be very practical.

@WASH Said

Here are a few solutions. No pensions for our Congress.

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Put unemployed to work.

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Limit top salaries on public employees.

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Reinstate the draft. And others/

@nooneinparticular Said

Where exactly?

Social security, medicare, and medicaid are all required by law. They are also paid through federal taxes, and are thus universally entitled.

Defense is out. Another major cost.

Which leaves discretionary programs in the non-military catagory.

That leaves us with 520 billion projected.

The total deficit for the fiscal year, leaving in interest and removing the entire 520 billion from the non-military discretionary catagory, and factoring in projected income for 2011 leaves us with about 747 billion dollars in the red.

Currently, even with this number I would guess that we have about a year, maybe two tops, if we don't increase revenue, don't increase the deficit ceiling and completly cut all non-military discretionary spending, starting now.

If the ceiling is set at 14.3 trillion, and the starting position for the debt subject to the ceiling is a little over 13 trillion as cited by this article , that leaves a roughly 1-1.3 trillion gap, maybe. I'd need a more precise number to be sure. Anyway, completley removing discretionary non-military spending from both fiscal years 2011 and 2012 will result in a net deficit gain of 1100 billion dollars.

And thats assuming things like school grants and federal social services like them are completley removed from the equation. With them, we have about 1 year, maybe ten months at most, since the fiscal year starts in November.

Here is the source of my numbers. Start on page 155, and work your way down. Most of it is taken from the spreadsheet on that page, but the graphs past that point are all very useful. Especially the pie chart.

@raditz Said

Of course, the law can be changed.

@nooneinparticular Said

Um, K.

Then you get to explain to hundreads of thousands of senior citizens and othe people that qualify for medicare, medicaid, and social security that they don't actually get to have any of the money back that they paid in.

Repealing the law is one thing, but alot of people have been paying into this system for most of their adult lives. They don't deserve anything for the amounts they put in?

@raditz Said

If the money isn't there, the money isn't there. Not much can be done about it.

@nooneinparticular Said

You don't really care about fairness and solutions do you? You just want to see the government fall on its a** and damn the consequences.

@nooneinparticular Said

Um, K.

Then you get to explain to the millions of people that qualify for medicare, medicaid, and social security that they don't actually get to have any of the money back that they paid in.

Repealing the law is one thing, but alot of people have been paying into this system for most of their adult lives. They don't deserve anything for the amounts they put in?

@white_swan53 Said

Isn't the sad tale of the Social Security money's a pretty accurate picture of what our government has been doing for the past several decades?
The Social security fund wasn't suppose to be touched for anything other then paying it back to the people that had been paying into it most of their adult lives. But the politicians seen all that money just sitting there accumulating and just couldn't keep their grubby paws off of it. Now there is no more .
We have sat on our thumbs and allowed our government to spend us right into debt hell , and now we all want some one to come up with a painless quick and easy fix . The senior citizens blame the boomers , the boomers blame the x generation they blame the seniors , and the bottom line is , it is the generations yet to be born that will be getting the effects of it up wazoo .

@raditz Said

SS and Medicare have $50 trillion in unfunded liabilities, what do you suggest?

@nooneinparticular Said

I never said that the government wasn't to blame for the initial dip. Personally I found it idiotic to do, but assigning blame where blame is due does nothing to help find a solution.

@nooneinparticular Said

Well, the other option that stops the most immediate concern of defaulting would be to raise the debt ceiling.

Lets be honest here. While the economy is in a downswing, both raising taxes to cover the hole in a more timely fashion and lowering costs of the government are considered economically contracting policies.

@white_swan53 Said

You may be correct about 'assigning blame where blame is due' won't help find a solution , but until we can stop the government spending spree , assigning blame where blame is due is about all we have.
If we could somehow get our politicians to understand that spending our tax dollars is not one of the job 'perks or fringe benefits ' but instead it's of one of the responsibilities , we may be would have a chance at finding a real and workable solution.
We could start by keeping our money home where it could work for the good of those of us who have sweat ed and worked to earn it. We seem to be sending truck loads of cash to other countries for various reasons . Sure it's real nice to be a helpful neighbor , but when it starts cutting into our own needs , well then , damn the luck , charity starts at home , or it should anyway.