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Taxes and "job creators"

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El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#1New Post! Apr 17, 2012 @ 06:10:01
Dividends and capital gains need to be taxed at low rates because they "create jobs" eh? Let's see here.

Say I'm Richie McRichie.

I can start a business to hire some people.

Say I set it up as a basic LLC.
Earnings are taxed at regular income tax rates. OOPS no jobs there.

Say instead I set it up as a basic corporation.
Earnings are taxed at regular corporate income tax rates. OOPS no jobs there.

Nah, that doesn't sound too good. Tax rates high in both cases!
Those suckers doing the hard work get to pay all the taxes.

What should I do with my cash?


I know, I'll buy some stock in ChinaCorp and some stock in Wal-Mart. They'll use some cash to hire some people in China to make some cheap s***, then they'll ship it over and sell it to poor people at Wal-Mart. My tax rate on dividends and capital gains? Something less than 15% and I don't have to do any work aside from deciding which stock to buy. And of course I can right off any taxes I might pay to the Chinese government.

If you believe the line about how dividends are taxed as necessary to "encourage investment" then you're a sucker.
hoppy On August 27, 2013




,
#2New Post! Apr 17, 2012 @ 12:14:03
@El_Tino Said

Dividends and capital gains need to be taxed at low rates because they "create jobs" eh? Let's see here.

Say I'm Richie McRichie.

I can start a business to hire some people.

Say I set it up as a basic LLC.
Earnings are taxed at regular income tax rates. OOPS no jobs there.

Say instead I set it up as a basic corporation.
Earnings are taxed at regular corporate income tax rates. OOPS no jobs there.

Nah, that doesn't sound too good. Tax rates high in both cases!
Those suckers doing the hard work get to pay all the taxes.

What should I do with my cash?


I know, I'll buy some stock in ChinaCorp and some stock in Wal-Mart. They'll use some cash to hire some people in China to make some cheap s***, then they'll ship it over and sell it to poor people at Wal-Mart. My tax rate on dividends and capital gains? Something less than 15% and I don't have to do any work aside from deciding which stock to buy. And of course I can right off any taxes I might pay to the Chinese government.

If you believe the line about how dividends are taxed as necessary to "encourage investment" then you're a sucker.



So, keep threating the rich with talk about more taxes and "share the wealth" bulls***. Yeah, that's gotta work. Gotta love liberal logic, at least for the laughs. Meanwhile the rich transfer most of their money elswhere, because of liberal logic..
Cinnamon On April 21, 2012




USA,
#3New Post! Apr 17, 2012 @ 13:09:09
@hoppy Said

So, keep threating the rich with talk about more taxes and "share the wealth" bulls***. Yeah, that's gotta work. Gotta love liberal logic, at least for the laughs. Meanwhile the rich transfer most of their money elswhere, because of liberal logic..


That's right ... what the government doesn't know ...
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#4New Post! Apr 17, 2012 @ 13:19:27
When you invest money the government gets to tax it twice on the way back - they tax it when the company you invested in makes money and then tax it again when the company returns some of the money it made to you.

It takes money to create jobs. Whether you use your money to directly create jobs or invest your money in someone else who will create jobs is fairly irrelevant.
El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#5New Post! Apr 17, 2012 @ 20:51:43
@jonnythan Said

When you invest money the government gets to tax it twice on the way back - they tax it when the company you invested in makes money and then tax it again when the company returns some of the money it made to you.

It takes money to create jobs. Whether you use your money to directly create jobs or invest your money in someone else who will create jobs is fairly irrelevant.


There's a few points here.
1) I'm getting tax incentives for investing in other countries. Now why would we do that?
2) Employee wages and salaries are already deductible to the company employing them, why do we need to give extra incentives on top of that?
3) There's important psychology here. In theory, you're right. In practice, Richie McRichie has a bunch of money - he can work hard and be taxed a lot starting a company, or he can sit back and pay someone to do the hard work and get tax breaks for that.
4) You know, just because apple stock goes from $100 to $500 doesn't mean Apple is employing 5 times more people, yet those gains get special tax treatment. If the goal is for the government to induce private sector to create jobs, there are far more direct and efficient ways to do it than tax treatment of investments.
5) Why should investments get special tax treatment even if it does create jobs?
6) I do think we should eliminate corporate taxes and just tax individuals so any "double taxation" argument is moot.
fractal7221 On November 08, 2012




Hubbard, Ohio
#6New Post! Apr 19, 2012 @ 21:59:08
You are missing to key points. First, you do not get to write off inflation on capital gains. Many types of investments, real estate for example, typically track with inflation. When you sell an investment like this, you are actually losing purchasing power due to the government's cut.

Second, dividends are already taxed as profits from the company. You're a small business owner, should you have to pay both the business income tax and a dividend tax on any profits you make?
El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#7New Post! Apr 21, 2012 @ 07:20:28
@fractal7221 Said

You are missing to key points. First, you do not get to write off inflation on capital gains. Many types of investments, real estate for example, typically track with inflation. When you sell an investment like this, you are actually losing purchasing power due to the government's cut.


Well if you're concerned about that, let them deduct the effect of inflation on gains, or avoid the taxes only if you roll it over into another investment.

Quote:
Second, dividends are already taxed as profits from the company. You're a small business owner, should you have to pay both the business income tax and a dividend tax on any profits you make?


I already said I think we should get rid of the corporate income tax. But even if we didn't, how is it double taxation? The business is taxed once, and the owner is taxed once, because the business gives certain legal protections doesn't it deserve to pay a tax?

Then there is the case when businesses borrow money to pay the owner a dividend. That money was never taxed, and the business can use the interest paid on the loan as a tax deduction!

Investment income hasn't always had tax advantages and yet people still invested and the economy did well.
El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#8New Post! Apr 21, 2012 @ 07:22:50
@fractal7221 Said

Many types of investments, real estate for example


You get to depreciate real estate against income from the real estate, giving you a tax advantage every year to deal with inflation.
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