Do you sin against God or man?

@GreatestIam2 Said

Do you sin against God or man?

I saw this video and did not agree with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKwWZ2no8tk&feature=channel_page

If I sin, I think I sin against another human. Not against God. Against his law of course, or to be more specific, against the laws that men have attributed to God, but not against God.

This clip ignores the human victim altogether as if the victim has no right to feel offended and also have no responsibility to forgive the offender.

I find it rather droll that we are supposed to see God as the victim of all our sins.

If you were to visualize, for instance, God being the victim of all Gay sins, well you see what I mean.
Rather a startling picture right?

Sin also brings up the topic of forgiveness.

If you or I forgive a sin done against us, is there any reason for the sinner to kowtow to God for more forgiveness?
The sin, once forgiven by you or I is, well, forgiven. What exactly is God forgiving. The sin has been annulled by our forgiveness so God forgiving it is rather superfluous and in reality, if at the pearly gates, God were to seek to punish a forgiven sin then one could make a case that God is unjust.

Is God sticking his nose where it is not required in the case of saying we sin against him and in our seeking forgiveness for a forgiven sin?

Regards
DL

@MoshaFreak Said

i would see it as more of a sin against humans rather than god!

is i stole from god, i am sionning against the person who i stole from. God did not not own the property he is just disapointed you tok it.

@tariki Said

I must admit that I often observe that it is sometimes just one way traffic between the repentant sinner and his/her God, no matter who has been sinned against. In as much as a slaver such as John Newton can thow the dead carcasses of Africans overboard on his way to the America's, see the error of his ways, repent, obtain forgiveness from God, then write Amazing Grace!

Whatever the remainder of his life was, however deep in repentance, there remains the matter of some form of reconcilaition with those slaves he once treated with inhuman contempt. One would have thought that for "all things to be reconciled in Christ" ( the promise made in the New Testament ) then this would necessarily involve those slaves forgiving him - i.e. being reconciled to him.

"Mutual forgiveness of each vice opens the gates of paradise" (Blake)

(Though one does wonder just what "mutual" vice the slaves were guilty of towards Newton!)

For me, it is all one and the same, as the NT hints - perhaps more than hints. This is perhaps just what the meaning of the Incarnation points to.....

God appears
And God is Light
To those poor souls
Who dwell in night
But does a human form display
To those who walk in realms of day. (Blake, again)

To receive, or give, forgiveness to another human being is in effect to be reconciled to the Divine .

At least, that is how I see it.

@Electric_Banana Said

"Sin" is such a stupid word.

Just so that we're all on the same page, I see god as non-gendered hive mind that is the driving intelligence behind every single living thing in this environment.

To go out of your way to harm other things in this environment could also be viewed as harming god.

The theme of the environment that we are adventuring through is one of the parasite where in we all feast from other living things in one way or the other to maintain our survival.

Not many people wake up every morning with the desire to be a bad guy or an a*****e.

Therefor it could be said, going by the majority, that our eternal spirit is benevolent despite the challenge our current environment presents.

Using this logic it would be assessed that no matter how fair of a game that we play we will always be taking from another to provide for ourselves.

But to make this awkward situation comfortable and manageable we would then find ways where in we were not taking more than needed and not taking enough to take away from something else too much.

Thus accepting each other's differences and sharing with one another despite those differences would go yonks towards making our barbaric situation a much more pleasant one.

So in the instance of "Sin" we can only pin bad stigma on that which is taking away from others in excess or out of malicious and sadistic intention.

Of course the latter is forgivable as the only ones like that are so due to mental impairment and no fault of their own.

@GreatestIam2 Said

Wow. Three intelligent responses in a row. Let me get back on my feet.

I like your hive mind analogy. It fits perfectly with the cosmic consciousness that I found through my apotheosis so let me confirm, if you want to believe it, that you are exactly right in how you see things. No proof to show of course. One adjustment to your thinking though. It is not driving anything except perhaps direction of though in those who find it or better said, make contact with it. Other than that, it just watches and learns and evolves right along with us.

You see reality as it basically is. As evolving creatures we can only do one of two things. Compete/do what we call sin and evil, or cooperate/do good. That is equivalent to your taking more or less from each other.

Good thinking friend.

I do not quite agree with sin being a stupid word although we sometimes use it stupidly. We have two natures. The political and the divine. Sin is to the divine what crime is to the political.

Regards
DL

@GreatestIam2 Said

Good thinking but is your God that vulnerable that he is that easily hurt?

Not to be too critical but there are about 6 million who man lets starve to death every year. If a God was vulnerable at all, I would think that that would make any God move his rump to earth to ease that pain.

Regards
DL

@Electric_Banana Said

Thanks man, and I agree, it's always there for everyone rather they want it or not but those that benefit are the ones that learn to tune into and listen it. It is the collective of all our learnings from all of our different perspectives and adventures.

The way I got my intellect to eventually crank over was by taking quiet time out to think. During those times, if there was a subject I wanted to know more about, I would imagine that I was teaching that subject to a class or child thus resulting in new ideas and perspectives coming to me. I learnt while I taught.

@MoshaFreak Said

i dont belive in god. so thats why i have that veiw. i am also trying to reason with the people who do belive in a god.

@GreatestIam2 Said

As a religionist, I do not want to kill God. I do want to kill some of the silly notions that some have of God though. Many who do not read well will think me an atheist.
It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.
They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy is evil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

They also do much harm to their own.

African witches and Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s

For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
Fight them when you can.

Regards
DL

@MoshaFreak Said

thats alright to me! i acept all religions

@chisa96 Said

I believe, according the christian take on it, to sin against man is to sin against god. You would simultaneously be sinninig against man and god. The human victim has the right to be hurt by and it and the sinner should seek forgiveness from that person, but at the same time it's important to ask god forgiveness for causing such hurt amongst others of his creation.

Arguably, even if you don't believe the christian take, both are still important if one strives to be a "good" person. Making amends with the person you hurt is for obvious reasons, but making amends with god is still metaphorical for genuine regret for being a person who causes such harm. Repenting to god is not unlike vowing to yourself never to do such things again. Removing god from the equation doesn't change the action of true repenting.

As far as gays, or any biblical sin that doesn't actually cause harm to another, it just comes down to a person's values and what they believe to be wrong. Again, with or without god in the equation.