Detroit cops probe how officer's holstered gun killed woman

https://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/07/detroit-cops-probe-how-officers-holstered-gun-killed-woman/1?csp=24&kjnd=n2iiPOXfKOaTmDHkMOrW7PaitcWjx8QPnVH%2B1bxd2sTbolgxBkrYnHIVMifVqEYa-43f5ef85-c8b6-4245-9eed-1a469b66c46b_3%2BM28vL2s6uySvzb571NExHn9KBeuUHPvuoBTOuZskIy9Itbp1JHtnoyK0DoL0S3




This is a very strange read. The gun was holstered, pointing at the ground , yet the bullet passed through her lung and hit her in heart killing her. The cop was dancing with his wife , the woman was dancing behind him touching his waist but her mom says she didn't know the cop and had been invited to the party by mutual friends .
Maybe they should be looking close at the wife and checking for her prints on the holster ??

Somebody's lieing. That just doesn't make any sense at all. What makes just as little sense is why the officer would still be wearing his gun while dancing at his home during a social function.

The whole thing does sound a little odd.

I agree , why did he even have his sidearm still on while at a party in his own back yard ?
The wife is the only one that could have seen the woman behind her husband the cop . If he didn't touch his gun and the woman behind him didn't, that only leaves the wife . IMO

Wearing your sidearm at home is not an uncommon practice for many who EDC (every day carry) a firearm, police or civilian. Off duty police are still police officers and people they deal with often get to know there face. Some of them hold a lot of resentment against a particular officer for one reason or another. Trouble can happen anywhere and a gun locked in a safe in another room is a tool you don't have access to should you be anywhere other than in that particular room.

The article didn't say what kind of holster this was other than a neoprene holster.If this were a shoulder holder I can see how she could be shot through the chest. Some shoulder holster rigs carry the gun in the horizontal position with the muzzle facing directly to the back of the person carrying it. A holster that leaves the trigger exposed in such a way that pressure can be applied to it, is a very bad holster design. Few soft sided holster designs are actually good designs. The vast majority of holsters are Kydex, molded leather or leather with a stiff insert making the core of the holster. Soft side holsters tend to be used more for ultra deep concealment or ankle holsters...etc.

This is also the reason why carrying a gun "Mexican style" tucked in your waist band is bad idea to.A t-shirt or waist band does not protect a trigger well and may get caught inside the trigger guard and discharge the firearm...into your crotch. With a properly designed holster meant for EDC the trigger will be complete covered so your finger will index on the outside with no flex in the material.

The gun should also be checked by a gunsmith. A gun just doesn't go off by being tugged at. 6.5 pound trigger is not heavy nor is it a light trigger pull. If the discharge was due to neglect of the firearm or a modification of the trigger group the owner of that gun may have something to worry about. The only time one should mess with the trigger group is when A) there is a problem with the mechanism or B) it's a competition piece.

All that being said...

He did choose to use that holster and it was a very poor choice. A choice I don't understand...a soft side holster? Really? Why? Unless you really had to....

The story also....seems to have a huge hole in it. Someone knows something and they're not telling...

That was my thought too. Just because a cop is out of uniform or off duty, doesn't stop them from mentally/emotionally being a cop.

Wouldn't the safety be on though? Shouldn't that make it harder for the gun to 'accidentally discharge'? I would think a cop, of all people would make sure that the safety was on.

Without knowing the exact make and model of the firearm he was carrying I can't explain specifically how it works.

Many handguns have an all internal safety system which means you must directly pull the trigger which in turn disengages an internal safety which allows another safety to disengaged and either the hammer to drop or the striker to move forward.

For example:

A Springfiled XD has a safety lever built into the trigger...


As well as another safety on the back of the gun, you can see it protruding from the curve of the handle, called a grip safety...


In order for the weapon to fire, your hand must grip the firearm and disengaged both safeties simultaneously or it will not fire. Tugging on it,dropping it, even pushing the trigger with your finger without holding it would not fire this weapon. There are many different types of safety systems out there. This is only one of them.

These types of firearms don't have "external safeties" per say. They can't be switched on and off. They are always on...and always off.(when your hand holds it properly) In order to fire it must be held in a firing position.

It was a Smith&Wesson M&P 40 caliber semi automatic. I have no knowledge about guns but I found this "For the gun to fire, the trigger, which requires 6.5 pounds of pull to discharge, must be pulled completely, Smith & Wesson says."

Wikipedia says this about it

"This trigger system prevents the firearm from discharging unless the trigger is fully depressed, even if the pistol is dropped. An internal lock and/or magazine disconnect are available as options and an optional external thumb safety became available in 2009.[2]"

Guns have safety right? Pardon me, I am so out of my element, so even if the safety was off, you need to really pull on the trigger with 6.5 lbs of pull to get it to go off?

I'm quite sure the firearms / ballistics lab, or whatever they have over there that passes for it, will inspect the weapon.

There are a number of forensic checks that will be carried out which should establish the circumstances of this shooting.

A thought occurs to me.... One poster suggested that some police officers regularly wear firearms around their own homes because they are twitchy (paranoid..??) about retaliatory acts. OK, if that's the case, one might expect the officer concerned to be conscious of the weapon in his possession and would be sensitive to any person attempting to take it off him. Would he not resist the attempt.? Prevent somebody from taking it.?

This is indeed an odd case, but the options seem to be quite narrow and should be whittled down without too much difficulty.


On a personal note, here.... My wife has been a police officer for seven years. From Probationary Plonk on the beat to Detective Inspector (graduate fast-tracker). In all that time, she has only ever drawn her baton once and has only ever put an arrested person in handcuffs twice. She has never drawn her CS Spray. She's never called in an armed response unit.

She's had to deal with drunks, muggers, and other threatening individuals. Yes, she wears a stab vest on duty when necessary. Sure, she's had to use restraining holds but nobody has ever come to physical injury because of them. Some villains resist arrest, but it's surprising how, in real life, a person's struggles weaken quite quickly if the correct restraint techniques are applied. People who try to run away usually tire very quickly.

Amanda can look after herself, and she doesn't need to kill anybody to do it.

Good coppering isn't about machismo. You're not defined as a policeman / woman by how big a gun you've got. Good coppering isn't some sort of wild west show and what you see in the movies isn't real.

I'd hate to live a life where my significant other walks around with a loaded gun on her hip all the time, scared in her own home in case somebody takes a shot at her.

The lives American policemen live must be awful if that's how they have to exist all day of every day. I call it an existence because it certainly isn't a life.

.

the best safety, is not to have a bullet in the chamber.
pull the trigger all day long, and nothing happens.
right?

Guess what ? Trying to compare your coppers to our law enforcement officers is like compareing apples to oranges.
So,please take your American hateing self back to your thread with the photo of a copper kicking a woman in the head ,oh and BTW, I'm truely sorry it hasn't garrnered the out rage and support you seem to have expected.

I didn't expect it to garner outrage. It should have, but I'm not surprised that it didn't. That should tell you something, but I doubt very much it will.

My purpose for showing the photo was because it was violence against a defenceless individual by a person in a position of trust. A person who should have shown restraint but didn't.
If it had happened anywhere in the world I would still have shown it.


You're right, up to a point though. In that comparing our police to yours is like comparing two different things. I say up to a point because we too have thugs and cowards in our police services. The difference is in the way our public responds to incidents such as those I demonstrated.... if you check the post, you will see that I started my OP by describing the alleged (the trial is still in progress) manslaughter of Ian Tomlinson in London.

Our public demands that police officers who commit acts of brutality are punished. Your public condones such acts and glorifies those who commit them.

When our officers are convicted of acts of brutality, they lose their job. Yours keep theirs.

Our society rejects the routine arming of police. Yours glories in it... revels in it.

Our police officers consider that being armed would be a failure. Yours swagger around thnking they're John Wayne.

Our society calls for gun controls and rejects widespread gun ownership. Yours enshrines it in the constitution.


Any society gets the police that reflects that society's values. We want police who are professional, thorough and efficient.... who enforce the law and maintain public order and safety, but do it with respect for the citizen. Sometimes they fall short of those standards and that causes widespread concern. Our society won't stand for police officers who abuse the trust the public places in them. That is why there is widespread condemnation of PC Harwood and full support for the charges of manslaughter currently being prosecuted against him. Over there, you'd be calling him a hero.


The purpose of my comparison was... er... to compare. I think I've now made my point.


.

I can not get around the fact that someone would carry arms while at a party??
Off duty officer at party still wearing holster and gun??
Normal??
Or is that how it works over there? No offence to anyone but this is why i am glad guns are illegal over here.

some fascinating gun porn on this thread ... and edc