North Korea

Leon

San Diego, California

#1

Apr 18, 2017 @ 14:18:24

How would you suggest the US resolve this issue?

0

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#2

Apr 18, 2017 @ 14:32:55

Cyber warfare to (continue to?) cripple their progress

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Leon

San Diego, California

#3

Apr 18, 2017 @ 15:19:08

@mrmhead Said

Cyber warfare to (continue to?) cripple their progress

Do you think that will be enough?

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chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#4

Apr 18, 2017 @ 15:42:35

Diplomacy.

We have "great power"...with power comes the opportunity to kick people's asses or take the high road and attempt a peaceful solution, even if "they" do not deserve it.

So..... Send an envoy to Kim Jong-un. Kindly, maturely and diplomatically ask Kim Jong-un what the f___k do you want? Tell him that the USA is prepared to help him and his country (as partners) come into the 21st century and become a truly viable part of the world's economic community. (Remember Sun Tsu... Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Tell him the only thing that is off the table is South Korea , they are and will remain a separated country until such time the NK and SK peacefully choose to reunite.

Don't threaten Kim Jong-un, don't mention NK's failing missile program. Simply take the high road. Embrace Kim Jong-un as the leader of his country.

We already know that we can kick NK's a** if we want to. Kim Jong-un knows this as well, regardless of his presence. Continuing to bring it up, either directly or indirectly, is idiotic.

If and when NK starts to become a viable part of the international economic community, NK will necessarily have to start opening its doors.

If it does this, we send in the greatest forces of capitalistic influence the world has ever know: Pepsi & Coke Cola (aka the Pepsi Challenge ), McDonalds & Burger King, and the Music Industry (Country, Rock, Rap). Once the people of NK are allowed to make their own choices in this simple things, they will want to embrace democracy....Kim Jong-un's days as a dictator will be in its last days....

....once Kim Jong-un is gone the two Koreas might reunite....once that happens the concerns of nukes are gone.

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Edited: April 18, 2017 @ 15:44

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#5

Apr 18, 2017 @ 15:45:48

@chaski Said

Tell him that the USA is prepared to help him and his country (as partners)

This part would probably freak out China...but why not have an ally on the boarder of China.

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Leon

San Diego, California

#6

Apr 18, 2017 @ 15:57:40

@chaski Said

..Kim Jong-un's days as a dictator will be in its last days....

....once Kim Jong-un is gone...

Wouldn't this be the very reason Kim wouldn't welcome such an approach?

0

Edited: April 18, 2017 @ 15:58

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#7

Apr 18, 2017 @ 16:09:49

@Leon Said

Wouldn't this be the very reason Kim wouldn't welcome such an approach?

Do we know that he won't welcome such an approach?

It is likely that he would be suspicious. It is likely that he wouldn't welcome "us" right away. But, I don't think "we" have ever tried this approach with NK.

We could modify "my" idea and do what was done with Cuba....have European countries be the 1st wave of capitalistic influence.

If we are going to just refuse to make a real 100% effort at diplomacy, then the only other option is to just kick is a** and quit stalling.

0

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#8

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:12:55

@Leon Said

Do you think that will be enough?

It would just be kicking the can down the road.

0

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#9

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:21:02

Removing Kim would just be another failed exercise in regime building. I don't know if there are any conflicting groups within NK, but as I understood, they are raised to hate America and SK, so it would not be a population welcoming us with open arms.
It has been run that way for generations and few know of little else. The power players around Kim will quickly want to rise and move into his spot and run things the same way.
If the gov't does collapse, there will be (??) millions of North Korean refugees to support - we couldn't leave them in the work camps ...

0

Eaglebauer

Moderator
Deleted

Saint Louis, Missouri

#10

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:24:11

I agree with Chaski. I don't think anyone wants to back to 1950 and I certainly don't think anyone denies that it's a bear trap over there right now in which slapping a hand down may just get you injured.

I also agree that he'd be very suspicious of that approach, not just because he's paranoid already but because even a sane person in the same situation would be suspicious. It'd be stupid not to be suspicious. But even the posture of peace under a suspicious eye (for now) is better than wondering how to survive a nuclear war.

0

Leon

San Diego, California

#11

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:39:30

@chaski Said

Do we know that he won't welcome such an approach?

It is likely that he would be suspicious. It is likely that he wouldn't welcome "us" right away. But, I don't think "we" have ever tried this approach with NK.

We could modify "my" idea and do what was done with Cuba....have European countries be the 1st wave of capitalistic influence.

If we are going to just refuse to make a real 100% effort at diplomacy, then the only other option is to just kick is a** and quit stalling.

It certainly is worth an effort, if it hasn't been tried before. I do know that negotiations have taken place in the past, but don't know fully what was offered and what demands were made, and whether or not they were refused.

With someone who enjoys such an iron grip on the entire nation through fear, paranoia, and persecution, though, I would think that he would be fearful of losing any of that or beginning a slippery slope once freedoms (such as capitalism) are introduced. A more benevolent dictator might survive this change, but not the likes of him, and he knows this. Which is why I ask if such an approach would even work with him, if it hasn't already been tried.

0

nooneinparticular

, Hawaii

#12

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:46:18

@chaski Said

Diplomacy.

We have "great power"...with power comes the opportunity to kick people's asses or take the high road and attempt a peaceful solution, even if "they" do not deserve it.

So..... Send an envoy to Kim Jong-un. Kindly, maturely and diplomatically ask Kim Jong-un what the f___k do you want? Tell him that the USA is prepared to help him and his country (as partners) come into the 21st century and become a truly viable part of the world's economic community. (Remember Sun Tsu... Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Tell him the only thing that is off the table is South Korea , they are and will remain a separated country until such time the NK and SK peacefully choose to reunite.

Don't threaten Kim Jong-un, don't mention NK's failing missile program. Simply take the high road. Embrace Kim Jong-un as the leader of his country.

We already know that we can kick NK's a** if we want to. Kim Jong-un knows this as well, regardless of his presence. Continuing to bring it up, either directly or indirectly, is idiotic.

If and when NK starts to become a viable part of the international economic community, NK will necessarily have to start opening its doors.

If it does this, we send in the greatest forces of capitalistic influence the world has ever know: Pepsi & Coke Cola (aka the Pepsi Challenge ), McDonalds & Burger King, and the Music Industry (Country, Rock, Rap). Once the people of NK are allowed to make their own choices in this simple things, they will want to embrace democracy....Kim Jong-un's days as a dictator will be in its last days....

....once Kim Jong-un is gone the two Koreas might reunite....once that happens the concerns of nukes are gone.

Personally, I'm not even sure Kim would take the bait of 'economic growth' to begin with, considering he apparently has enough money to arm his country to the teeth already, not to mention the missile program.
Even if he would however, we then make a gamble on whether or not he wouldn't turn right around and attack US interests anyways. Even if he didn't, we then look to the possibility of a civil war in North Korea. If we assume that our culture can convert the populace, Kim Jong-un would never go quietly in the night. The natural result between culture conversion and dictatorships is civil war, and with the stockpile that Kim has, it would shape up to be a massively bloody one.

0

Leon

San Diego, California

#13

Apr 18, 2017 @ 17:52:13

@mrmhead Said

Removing Kim would just be another failed exercise in regime building. I don't know if there are any conflicting groups within NK, but as I understood, they are raised to hate America and SK, so it would not be a population welcoming us with open arms.
It has been run that way for generations and few know of little else. The power players around Kim will quickly want to rise and move into his spot and run things the same way.
If the gov't does collapse, there will be (??) millions of North Korean refugees to support - we couldn't leave them in the work camps ...

Perhaps, but the Koreans are not like the Muslims, who have had generations of ingrained hatred for us, and a religion that preaches such, so that it isn't just a matter of toppling a single government regime, as you still have to deal with a culture and religion that expands much beyond.

Yes there is one generation that has known nothing else than what was fed to them in the propogandized schooling and press that no doubt takes place in North Korea, but there is also fear and persecution of its own people taking place so much so that I would think any respite from that would be welcomed, especially absent any religion that frowns upon it. Furthermore, they have kinship, if not broken families, from the South, that would help welcome such a transition. If we are going to go by previous regime changes as examples of what could happen, I would think East Germany, post Cold W,r would be a better example for this particular situation than Afghanistan or Iraq.

0

Edited: April 18, 2017 @ 18:01

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#14

Apr 18, 2017 @ 18:08:56

@Leon Said

With someone who enjoys such an iron grip on the entire nation through fear, paranoia, and persecution, though, I would think that he would be fearful of losing any of that or beginning a slippery slope once freedoms (such as capitalism) are introduced.

@nooneinparticular Said

Personally, I'm not even sure Kim would take the bait of 'economic growth' to begin with,

I agree with both of you.

If it were truly feasible, it would probably make more sense for the initial overture to come from European nations (France, German, England, etc).

Using Cuba (where the doors to Europe opened in the 90's) as an example, Kim might be more welcoming Europe than the USA.

Publicly our politicians could sort of poo-poo it, thus making Kim think that he is F___king with the USA by opening up to European countries.

Still, the real goal on our part might be to get the proverbial door open enough to influence some of Kim's generals...entice them subtly to view Kim as an obstacle to their wealth and power...sort of plant the seed for a coup.

Do I think any of that (

) is likely to succeed? I have doubts, but if everything else tried fails, then the one of the things not tried might just work.

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Edited: April 18, 2017 @ 18:12

nooneinparticular

, Hawaii

#15

Apr 18, 2017 @ 18:47:29

@Leon Said

It certainly is worth an effort, if it hasn't been tried before. I do know that negotiations have taken place in the past, but don't know fully what was offered and what demands were made, and whether or not they were refused.

Here. Also I would have put in something about the six-party talks but that hot mess is so complicated I could devote literally thousands of words to it in a post and it would still just be scratching the surface.

0

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