Time to leave Afganistan?

@bob_the_fisherman Said

The problem, I think, is what will, or could happen, when the west leaves.....

@chaski Said

The reasons to be there are well documented (and you cover them concisely.

Part of my original question is making an assumption that: A) That the numbers presented by Fareed Zakaria, CNN, are accurate; and B) If they are there seems to be little hope to "fix" Afghanistan... if their Defense budget exceeds their Government revenue by 8X, then as soon as we leave (whether in 1 year or 10 years) their defense/security will collapse.

Now, maybe these assumptions are incorrect (and anyone should feel free to challenge or correct them).

HOWEVER, if the assumptions are correct... we (the west in general and the US in particular) are wasting a lot of money and a lot of lives.

No????

@bob_the_fisherman Said

We are wasting time, money and lives at the moment, because our objective is to create what is, unfortunately, a virtual impossibility. A free, liberal, democrat and Islamic, Middle East.

There are, to put it bluntly, too many Muslims for that to happen - and before you go off at me for being some kind of "ist" I'm not. I know the Islamic religion, at least, it's texts, and its history, depressingly well.

While it is true that the majority of Muslims would happily live a free, liberal, democratic life, it is also true that there are enough Muslims that seek to follow the koran [1.-see footnote], to insure that a peaceful and liberal outcome is unlikely. When it comes to forming government, one radical willing to kill and be killed, is worth 20 liberals who want to live in peace.

As their stated aim is the implementation of Shariah law, the genocidal extermination or enslavement of, (in order), Jews, Christians, then everyone else (Quran, Surah 9:29), we are wasting time and money on one hand, and supporting the enemy we claim to be fighting on the other, it seems to me.

I see the problem. I do not have an answer though.




1. Just want to make the point, as I do not think you were here awhile ago, when a Muslim guy was on here. I know the texts and history of Islam reasonably well. I am not an "ist" of any kind, nor am I an 'Islamophobe.' I am merely one of the many people who believes you should look at history to see into the future.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Me is Aussie, dude, and we are paying for our soldiers to be there too, so, my tax dollar is going toward this effort. I support our soldiers 100% but not what they are being told to do.

@chaski Said

Yes you Aussies are.... but nothing like the money that we are sinking into that black hole.

(BTW... I tried to delete the part of my post that addressed the money issue.)

@bob_the_fisherman Said

st is a problem, I do not think oil is the sole culprit either. No doubt it gives the whole thing an extra dimension and has helped make the issue a global one, but, like anything, it is not that simple.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

What do you think the west and or America should do? Should we leave? Change the nature of our mission?

@bob_the_fisherman Said

1. Just want to make the point, as I do not think you were here awhile ago, when a Muslim guy was on here. I know the texts and history of Islam reasonably well. I am not an "ist" of any kind, nor am I an 'Islamophobe.' I am merely one of the many people who believes you should look at history to see into the future.

@Cinnamon Said

Very good disclaimer, keep it handy, Bob. I absolutely agree with you and know more about muslims and islam than I ever wanted to know - as you said, "depressingly well." Without my faith in God, I wouldn't want to be in this nightmare, waiting for the bomb to go off.

Thanks for all your insights and knowledge on this very important subject.

@chaski Said

The crusades.... not going there. That was a long long time ago.

I am willing to "listen"... what other reasons are there for our middle eastern fixation?

If there are other reasons/examples, perhaps you will share and compare our countries' fixation on the middle east to those other examples.

Diamonds or gold in Africa... we don't seem to fixate on Western Africa in the same way we do the middle east.

South East Asia... Vietnam is long long gone.

Western Europe.... some focus in the 90's, but really nothing like our focus on the middle east.


Central/South America... we all but ignore them...

Israel... yes. But if the Arabs didn't have oil, would we really give a crap about them? Really?

Feel free to correct me.