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can a woman/man be "manipulated" into being gay?

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boobagins On August 03, 2013
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Astral Weeks, Florida
#16New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 13:59:12
I don't think you can be tricked into a LONG term commitment.

You just wouldn't be happy long term living like that. Short term yes, long term - no.
sTreetAngeL On January 24, 2022
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in a paradox,
#17New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 20:18:57
I think it's possible to be manipulted into sex acts, espeically if the person is very lonley/vulnerable. If they aren't getting certain needs met by their chosen partners, and are by the same sex, I think it can be confusing; A relationship might ensue.

However, I strongly believe, from having gay friends of both sexes, that they all know what they are talking about when they say "they are born this way." I believe this is true with bi-sexuals as well.

The fact that you say they have been together since high school, and are, judging from your age, 35ish now, says a lot.
I think if your friend was just confused, and not actually so inclined, it would have revealed itself to her long before now, and she would have been off somewhere with a man.
LuckyCharms On July 31, 2021
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#18New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 21:21:33
@buffalobill90 Said

Can you substantiate this claim? It's quite strong.


Well I don't see what's so amazingly strong about it. I am of the opinion that we are born either straight or gay (or somewhere in between). I don't think that all of a sudden a person goes from straight to gay or vice versa. They may not have admitted it to themselves or others, and when it comes out later in life it can be quite surprising but the seeds of their sexuality were always there.

I've never met a gay person that said "I decided I was gay." I have heard "I discovered I was gay", "I always felt different" and even "I was never attracted to guys/gals and now I am living the way I feel".

Sexuality is one of our most primal urges and I don't think someone can be cajoled into being something they are not. They can be cajoled into acting like someone they respect/like/admire/love wants them to be. I've seen that happen. Usually they are seeking approval or trying to fit in. (Note, for the nitpickers, I said usually.)

@plebian_angel Said

I also think it's a strong statement. Love can change alot of things for a person. I can see someone going gay for a person and if the relationship ends than going straight again.



@plebian_angel Said

Could be I don't know. Really what defines sexuality and love? Can the two be seperate? I've been mulling this over lately and I can't decide.



I believe love and sexuality can be quite different. Emotions and animal attraction don't operate on the same level.

In any event, I don't believe that someone can just switch their sexual orientation.

In the case here, I think you have a gal that is very insecure and is desperately seeking approval and this other person took advantage of this weakness.
buffalobill90 On July 12, 2013
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Viaticum, United Kingdom
#19New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 22:28:40
@LuckyCharms Said

Well I don't see what's so amazingly strong about it. I am of the opinion that we are born either straight or gay (or somewhere in between). I don't think that all of a sudden a person goes from straight to gay or vice versa.



Well, for a start we are not born straight or gay. A person doesn't suddenly go straight or gay, but they gradually acquire their sexuality during puberty. I say it's a strong claim because it makes clear predictions about the objective world which it isn't difficult to imagine being falsified. I think you should be careful in forming such opinions.


@LuckyCharms Said
They may not have admitted it to themselves or others, and when it comes out later in life it can be quite surprising but the seeds of their sexuality were always there.



That just seems slightly patronising. I don't think you're qualified to make these kinds of claims about people's sexuality.

@LuckyCharms Said

I've never met a gay person that said "I decided I was gay." I have heard "I discovered I was gay", "I always felt different" and even "I was never attracted to guys/gals and now I am living the way I feel".



Anecdotal evidence is easily refuted by contrary anecdotal evidence.


@LuckyCharms Said

Sexuality is one of our most primal urges and I don't think someone can be cajoled into being something they are not. They can be cajoled into acting like someone they respect/like/admire/love wants them to be. I've seen that happen. Usually they are seeking approval or trying to fit in. (Note, for the nitpickers, I said usually.)



I'm not sure that sexuality is as fundamental as you presume. It is, of course, strongly bound up with our natural urges, but how you wield or understand those urges can be malleable.

For example, in ancient Greece it was ordinary for men of a certain social class to have sexual relationships with other men and boys. In exchange for tuition and initiation into higher social circles, younger men and boys would have sex with older men. Sex and sexuality was understood as a thing best appreciated, and shared, by men. Sexual roles were not defined by gender, but by social hierarchy. If, as you say, sex is something primal and a matter of essential nature, then how is it that many ancient Greek men were bisexual as a matter of convention? Were they mutants of some kind, or were they all just living a collective lie?


@LuckyCharms Said

I believe love and sexuality can be quite different. Emotions and animal attraction don't operate on the same level.

In any event, I don't believe that someone can just switch their sexual orientation.

In the case here, I think you have a gal that is very insecure and is desperately seeking approval and this other person took advantage of this weakness.



In this case, I don't think we have nearly enough information to come to that kind of conclusion. And since someone is asking for personal advice, I think we should be careful with whatever conclusions we come to and not be rash in our assertions.

I personally think that sexuality is very strongly linked to our natural constitution. But I also think that many aspects of our natural constitution are interpreted differently by different people and they wildly underdetermine our actual behaviour and thought. Even sexuality can be consciously - and freely - re-defined.
LuckyCharms On July 31, 2021
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#20New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 22:31:42
@buffalobill90 Said

Well, for a start we are not born straight or gay. A person doesn't suddenly go straight or gay, but they gradually acquire their sexuality during puberty.


Well time to turn the tables, do you have anything to substantiate your statement?

I'm not being patronizing. I'm giving advice based around my experience.
buffalobill90 On July 12, 2013
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Viaticum, United Kingdom
#21New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 22:58:25
@LuckyCharms Said

Well time to turn the tables, do you have anything to substantiate your statement?

I'm not being patronizing. I'm giving advice based around my experience.



See ancient Greece counter-example above.
LuckyCharms On July 31, 2021
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#22New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:03:10
@buffalobill90 Said

See ancient Greece counter-example above.


Sorry I was looking for something more scientific instead of cultural anecdotal.

You still haven't really proven your statement.
buffalobill90 On July 12, 2013
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Viaticum, United Kingdom
#23New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:10:59
@LuckyCharms Said

Sorry I was looking for something more scientific instead of cultural anecdotal.

You still haven't really proven your statement.



An anecdote is a personal story or account. I am referring to anthropological evidence of a (sophisticated, advanced and exceptionally civilised) society in which heterosexuality was not normal for certain social classes. How would you explain this if sexuality was not culturally-defined, but biologically determined as you say?

I am just saying that even our most fundamental biological urges are open for cultural and individual interpretation.
ultranewbie On December 31, 2012




el dorado, New Mexico
#24New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:12:13
@sTreetAngeL Said

I think it's possible to be manipulted into sex acts, espeically if the person is very lonley/vulnerable. If they aren't getting certain needs met by their chosen partners, and are by the same sex, I think it can be confusing; A relationship might ensue.

However, I strongly believe, from having gay friends of both sexes, that they all know what they are talking about when they say "they are born this way." I believe this is true with bi-sexuals as well.

The fact that you say they have been together since high school, and are, judging from your age, 35ish now, says a lot.
I think if your friend was just confused, and not actually so inclined, it would have revealed itself to her long before now, and she would have been off somewhere with a man.


thanks for the response, street angel.. i forgot to change my profile. we're all in our early 50's.. sorry about the confusion. She and her partner have been together since college. 30 years.
LuckyCharms On July 31, 2021
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,
#25New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:14:24
@buffalobill90 Said

An anecdote is a personal story or account. I am referring to anthropological evidence of a (sophisticated, advanced and exceptionally civilised) society in which heterosexuality was not normal for certain social classes. How would you explain this if sexuality was not culturally-defined, but biologically determined as you say?

I am just saying that even our most fundamental biological urges are open for cultural and individual interpretation.



Peer pressure? Could be several reasons. It doesn't really do anything to disprove what I said. They could be acting in accordance or not in accordance with their own sexual orientation for a myriad of reasons.

But if you want to come on here and tell me I'm wrong and then say you are right you're going to have to come up with something more than one historical example. In fact I would say without some kind of scientific evidence, all we are doing is debating opinions. I expressed mine. You expressed yours. The difference is I didn't call you patronizing because I disagreed with you.
galastaray On June 08, 2016
honey bucket


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Honey Bucket, Reunion
#26New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:17:08
I'm not sure you can choose who to be sexually attracted to physically. However, you can choose who to be sexually attracted to mentally. Your friend might not be attracted to her in a physical manner, however she might be attracted to her personality, aspirations, lifestyle, etc. and as a result became gay for her.
boobagins On August 03, 2013
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Astral Weeks, Florida
#28New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:42:46
I just want to say, this has turned out to be a great thread.
BozieFozie On May 19, 2022
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Paradise, Florida
#29New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:57:07
I don't think so personally. You either are or you aren't. Maybe somebody who thinks they've been manipulated is actually bi-sexual and feels comfortable being sexual with either men or women. They then choose to be partners with someone, either man or woman. I know bi-sexuals who choose and are happy, really happy!!
thequietman On August 29, 2018
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Rusty Bullet Hole, Washington
#30New Post! Jan 31, 2011 @ 23:59:46
I manipulate my hand into being gay about 3 times a day.
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