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california lab has cloned a human embryo

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davros On March 04, 2008
Troll



Bristol, United Kingdom
#16New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:27:15
@vizzy Said
Please tell me this was meant to be funny, because it was.


You won't be laughing when the clones are fitted with power armour.
iliterate_enginere On February 12, 2010

Deleted



Wichita, Kansas
#17New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:27:36
@vizzy Said
If they are cloned humans, shouldn't they be afforded the same rights as any human? Jsut because it's a clone it wouldn't be any less human, correct?


I dunno. I'm thinking it's possible that It could turn out to be dumb..like without the ability to reason?
stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

Deleted



Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#18New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:34:16
@vizzy Said
If they are cloned humans, shouldn't they be afforded the same rights as any human? Jsut because it's a clone it wouldn't be any less human, correct?


Ah, but define human being. We've never had to define it before, because it seemed pretty obvious. But I guarantee you that some people will claim that it is a soul that defines humanity, and that since a clone is a man made entity, not made of God, it does not have a soul. And ergo should not be afforded human rights.

And what about when we start tinkering with the DNA of clones? Make them fearless, unquestioning super soldiers? Are they still human? When the war is over, what do we do with them? Put them in the closet?

How about specifically creating brain damaged clones who still need to ask "is that for here or to go? What drink would you like? Would you like that large?" even after you say "large Big Mac meal, with a Coke, to go, please"? Then they could replace all the McDonald workers. They'd have been created to have minimal needs and desires, and would work for only basic sustenance and shelter.

How about the clone with four arms? Could he be a boxer?

When does a clone cease to be human and become something less... or more.

How much will clone health insurance cost if they've been tinkered with?

ok, I'm going overboard now, genetic manipulation is not the immediate topic at hand, but some day it will be. The ethics of cloning are absolutely mind blowing.
Vizzy On February 20, 2012




, Florida
#19New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:41:11
I hadn't given consideration to genetic mutations. Sheesh. I get distracted by things like who gets cloned?

If society can not agree on the existence of God, how can we declare a clone human or not based on the whether it has a soul or not? If, as a society, we say a clone IS human how could we then tinker with it?

I know I bounced around here, just thoughts that popped into my head.
davros On March 04, 2008
Troll



Bristol, United Kingdom
#20New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:41:37
"I'm going overboard now, genetic manipulation is not the immediate topic at hand, but some day it will be. The ethics of cloning are absolutely mind blowing."



And they still won't help Scotland get through to the second round of the world cup.
Vizzy On February 20, 2012




, Florida
#21New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:42:13
@davros Said
You won't be laughing when the clones are fitted with power armour.


And that give me the giggles even more!
stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

Deleted



Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#22New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 17:58:26
@vizzy Said
I hadn't given consideration to genetic mutations. Sheesh. I get distracted by things like who gets cloned?

If society can not agree on the existence of God, how can we declare a clone human or not based on the whether it has a soul or not? If, as a society, we say a clone IS human how could we then tinker with it?

I know I bounced around here, just thoughts that popped into my head.


If society can not agree on the existence of God, how can we not recognize marriage between gay couples based on what the definition of marriage in the bible is. Oh. Wait...
stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

Deleted



Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#23New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:00:55
@davros Said
And they still won't help Scotland get through to the second round of the world cup.


Scotland could field a keeper that was genetically modified to be an oblong 24 feet wide and 8 feet tall, and still fail to reach the second round of the world cup.
rockdave On May 23, 2009




peterboring, United Kingdom
#24New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:42:17
and there's the problem of overcrowding. we got that here in the uk already but if theres clones thats when the problem will arise. on the other hand... would it be good or bad if a person (ill say me just for instance for now) could be cloned now and kinda kept in storage and then when i kick the bucket i could have my brain transplanted to the clone of me when i was 21 and therefor live forever? is that good or bad/ moral or immoral? just as long as tony blair and that bloke in the tax returns advert dont do it were laughing hehe
iliterate_enginere On February 12, 2010

Deleted



Wichita, Kansas
#25New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:50:30
@peanut Said
We have clones already. They are called identical twins. Is either of them less of a human that the other?


Yes, haven't you ever heard of the evil twin?
stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

Deleted



Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#26New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:51:13
@peanut Said
We have clones already. They are called identical twins. Is either of them less of a human that the other?


But both of them are born of a mother.

I am not personally making the argument. To me a clone is as human as you or are, but then I believe that we are walking talking meat sacks and that the soul is a metaphor for life crated by people incapable of understanding the universe and their place in it.

My point is that the argument will exist.

Ask your parents about clones. See what they think on the subject of a soul.
rockdave On May 23, 2009




peterboring, United Kingdom
#27New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:51:28
but twins arent genetically man made are they. well they are kinda 'man made' but not in this sense of the word
rockdave On May 23, 2009




peterboring, United Kingdom
#28New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 18:59:43
is it really immoral if we engineered them to serve tho? bit like kryten in red dwarf. thats what he actually lives for! i know he's a robot and its sci fi but this news story is like something out of sci fi tv.
stumblinthrulife On April 16, 2008

Deleted



Lake Saint Louis, Missouri
#29New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 19:02:36
@peanut Said
Easy, Tiger. Leave my parents out of it. Yeah, they wouldn't agree to it. Even though twins are born of a mother, they are from one cell, therefore-one soul to share. Anyway, I know what you are saying. I'm just saying we have "clones" already. Yes, the questions will be raised, and yeah, we will treat them like crap I'm sure. I just wish people would look at the fact that we have "clones" in identical twins and think of it more that way. Do you see what I'm saying?


I see what you are saying.

I think that the defining factor will be more the fact that they are "man made" rather than "sharing DNA".

I believe we are enlightened enough (though far from enlightened) to skip past the whole clones as property aspect. I also think we will not be creating deliberately inferior clones for menial or dangerous work.

But I believe the country will be split when it comes down to giving them rights, the vote, the right to marry (can two gay atheist clones marry?), the right to benefits, etc...

Further, I'm not so sure we wouldn't be making enhanced clones. The birth of Homo Superious? What of the job market now? I'm a smart guy, but doubtful I could compete for my job against a clone inherently designed to have a 300+ IQ (or whatever the equivalent score would be on the required new IQ scale). Or that a bricklayer could compete with a clone that could hoist a hopper of 300 brick on his shoulder and run up a ladder. Labor unions would be going nuts. Anti-clone organizations would pop up everywhere.

Will the issue be equal rights for clones, or equal opportunities for 'borns'?
shadowy On March 20, 2014




Glasgow, United Kingdom
#30New Post! Feb 11, 2008 @ 22:39:17
@stumblinthrulife Said
But they will.

There is most definitely a very important moral and ethical debate to be had here.

Will cloned humans be afforded the rights of born humans? Will cloned humans be modified (dumbed down) in any way, such as to be used as a cheap labor force? Will clones be used for the armed forces, so we don't have to send "real people" into war? What are the morals of that? If we give life, does that give us the right to take it away? Are clones people or property? Is it possible to clone particular individuals? What of the matter of health care - could you clone yourself for spare parts? How about the religious aspect? Do clones have souls? Can a clone go to heaven? How about mixed clone/born marriages?

Sound like science fiction? So did cloning 25 years ago. And walking on the moon 50 years ago. And computers 100 years ago.

You think the abortion and stem cell debates were heated? In the words of Bachman-Turner Overdrive - you ain't see nothing yet...


I think cloning of a full human will be avoided for exactly those reasons minus the religious mumbo jumbo.

Research will go more in the direction of growing parts that you need rather than full humans.
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