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Who are the Citizens?

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chaski On about 2 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#1New Post! Jul 11, 2019 @ 23:48:18
So Trump wants to know who are the citizens in the USA and who are not the citizens in the USA.

"We are not backing down on our effort to determine the citizenship status of the US population,"

Seems reasonable... right?

The Supreme Court (one of our three governmental checks and balances ) didn't agree.

So now Trump is going to use an "Executive Order" telling the Department of Commerce to obtain the answer(s) from all the other Executive Agencies.

That also seems reasonable... right?

Really? Guess which two Federal agencies have YOUR information?

>>> The Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue Service. <<<

Generally speaking both of these agencies have very strict rules on when and if they can share YOUR information with Federal Law Enforcement... privacy rights... but not now.

Typically it is conservatives & republicans (especially the "far right"... and the Tea Party) as well as Libertarians who don't want a "strong" Federal Government to have this sort of personal and private information. But now they are lining up behind Trump to hand over their privacy, all of our privacy.

Imagine for a moment, once the Fed already has YOUR information, when the next Obama is elected and wants to take away your guns... they will have everything on you and only need to match it with gun ownership (An astonishingly easy thing for the Fed to do, whether you want to believe it or not).

You 21st Century conservatives are killing me... with laughter...

Go ahead... give up your privacy!


[Note: I have no dog in this hunt. "They" know exactly where I am... former job... comes with the turf... ]
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#2New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 02:05:34
Yes it surprises me how many people are willing to have over information if they think it’s going to f*** over someone they don’t like. Like the don’t realize once the info is out there we all ducked.
Leon On July 16, 2019




San Diego, California
#3New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 03:14:08
I actually don’t see anything wrong with asking for citizenship on the Census, and was surprised it wasn’t already on there to be honest. But I do understand why Democrats are all up in arms over it (or were anyways). And it was pretty disingenuous how Team Trump went about trying to include it (and the reasons for it),

As far as the SSA and IRS, meh. After 9/11 I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody in government can probably get my info if they really wanted to. And after the Equifax hack, I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody period can probably get my info if they really wanted to.

I just don’t give them any reason to really want to.
gakINGKONG On about 8 hours ago




Okinawa, Japan
#4New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 03:18:08
@DiscordTiger Said

Yes it surprises me how many people are willing to have over information if they think it’s going to f*** over someone they don’t like. Like the don’t realize once the info is out there we all ducked.



News story states DJT has retreated from asking a question on the 2020 census about citizenship.

I don't understand why he would retreat from that. But, maybe he can revisit it. Every effort the president makes takes political capital, so probably he could use it somewhere else.

I would be excited if Mr Trump could focus on a balanced budget ammendment or reducing federal spending. Maybe he could use his bully-pullpit to speak out against big pharma or

--- he could just keep what he's doing to "keep america great some more" or whatever sooperdooper thing is happening today.
chaski On about 2 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#5New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 04:10:39
@Leon Said

I actually don’t see anything wrong with asking for citizenship on the Census, and was surprised it wasn’t already on there to be honest. But I do understand why Democrats are all up in arms over it (or were anyways). And it was pretty disingenuous how Team Trump went about trying to include it (and the reasons for it),

As far as the SSA and IRS, meh. After 9/11 I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody in government can probably get my info if they really wanted to. And after the Equifax hack, I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody period can probably get my info if they really wanted to.

I just don’t give them any reason to really want to.



Of course my point was more about the traditional "right wing" "conservative" "republican" perspective, that in the past did not want Federal Government involvement at the citizen level... AND wanted to protect "right to privacy"...

etc...

Even Trump to this day doesn't want to share his tax info...

HOWEVER this new move to gather information from all Federal Government sources would (IMO) primarily target not only information held by the the Social Security Administration, but also Information held by the IRS...

...our tax information....

...which Trump doesn't even want to share...

My post is about, at least in large part, the Irony.
chaski On about 2 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#6New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 04:14:50
@Leon Said


As far as the SSA and IRS, meh. After 9/11 I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody in government can probably get my info if they really wanted to.




Actually, this isn't true.

It is actually complicated and difficult for Federal agents (either criminal or counter intelligence) to get your information as a U.S. citizen...

.... in spite of the warrantless search stuff initiated by Bush (not Obama).

But no one has to believe me on that point.
Leon On July 16, 2019




San Diego, California
#7New Post! Jul 12, 2019 @ 05:55:39
@chaski Said

Of course my point was more about the traditional "right wing" "conservative" "republican" perspective, that in the past did not want Federal Government involvement at the citizen level... AND wanted to protect "right to privacy"...

etc...

Even Trump to this day doesn't want to share his tax info...

HOWEVER this new move to gather information from all Federal Government sources would (IMO) primarily target not only information held by the the Social Security Administration, but also Information held by the IRS...

...our tax information....

...which Trump doesn't even want to share...

My post is about, at least in large part, the Irony.


Yes, I know. And sorry if I didn’t address the irony. I was more or less just addressing the whole headline about the citizenship question.

I do know that the right has traditionally supposed to be that (about privacy rights and freedom from gov intrusion). Of course that isn’t the first time it went out the door for them (GW), so it’s probably a muse anyways, just like concern for our debt.

@chaski Said

Actually, this isn't true.

It is actually complicated and difficult for Federal agents (either criminal or counter intelligence) to get your information as a U.S. citizen...

.... in spite of the warrantless search stuff initiated by Bush (not Obama).

But no one has to believe me on that point.


I don’t.
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#8New Post! Jul 13, 2019 @ 02:06:26
@gakINGKONG Said

News story states DJT has retreated from asking a question on the 2020 census about citizenship.

I don't understand why he would retreat from that. But, maybe he can revisit it. Every effort the president makes takes political capital, so probably he could use it somewhere else.

I would be excited if Mr Trump could focus on a balanced budget ammendment or reducing federal spending. Maybe he could use his bully-pullpit to speak out against big pharma or

--- he could just keep what he's doing to "keep america great some more" or whatever sooperdooper thing is happening today.


He’s retreating from it because the constitution is a thing. And someone probably told him he has to follow it. He doesn’t get to be a dictator, even he thinks he’s sooperdooper.
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#9New Post! Jul 13, 2019 @ 02:08:57
@chaski Said

Actually, this isn't true.

It is actually complicated and difficult for Federal agents (either criminal or counter intelligence) to get your information as a U.S. citizen...

.... in spite of the warrantless search stuff initiated by Bush (not Obama).

But no one has to believe me on that point.



Sadly most people don’t know how complicated it’s supposed to be. Even sadder is that some of those people work in positions that are supposed to be protecting the information.
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#10New Post! Jul 13, 2019 @ 02:15:34
@Leon Said

I actually don’t see anything wrong with asking for citizenship on the Census, and was surprised it wasn’t already on there to be honest. But I do understand why Democrats are all up in arms over it (or were anyways). And it was pretty disingenuous how Team Trump went about trying to include it (and the reasons for it),

As far as the SSA and IRS, meh. After 9/11 I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody in government can probably get my info if they really wanted to. And after the Equifax hack, I’m pretty much resigned to the fact anybody period can probably get my info if they really wanted to.

I just don’t give them any reason to really want to.


It most likely hasn’t been on there because that information will be used to discriminate. It’s been an issue since they thought blacks were 3/5 of a person, and the groups and numbers have changed but the discrimination potential is still there. Which is why it’s historically been left out, no one can make an argument it’s going to be used in a safe and ethical (constitutional) way.

And the fundamental trade of for collecting data is that it is safe and anonymous. With trump admitting he wanted the question on there for discrimination purposes he pretty much Twitter f***ed himself.
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