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Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#31New Post! Sep 09, 2012 @ 22:20:48
when you die, you testify.
see, without knowing it, you recorded all you did.
a strange being you will meet, will the words be the same as you speak?
more and more these words are lost, who in their right mind believes in a ghost.
Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#32New Post! Sep 09, 2012 @ 23:42:58
@Willi Said

when you die, you testify.
see, without knowing it, you recorded all you did.
a strange being you will meet, will the words be the same as you speak?
more and more these words are lost, who in their right mind believes in a ghost.



The 'Testify' thing - More commonly nowadays people theory what Vonnegut suggested in Breakfast of Champions.

Dwight Hoover had to testify to himself, at the end, rather he was competent, kind and responsible enough to manage a physical life.

So if we really have something to prove to something that is recording our memories and experiences, it is proving our integrity to ourselves.

Those are prehistoric ponderings for me nowadays. I moved up to the point now where I realize, like The Who, "I don't need to be forgiven." I just have to evaluate what is best for me on a personal level and decide if this existence is one that I can handle for one show only or if I want to make it a habit.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#33New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 01:05:22
@Electric_Banana Said

The 'Testify' thing - More commonly nowadays people theory what Vonnegut suggested in Breakfast of Champions.

Dwight Hoover had to testify to himself, at the end, rather he was competent, kind and responsible enough to manage a physical life.

So if we really have something to prove to something that is recording our memories and experiences, it is proving our integrity to ourselves.

Those are prehistoric ponderings for me nowadays. I moved up to the point now where I realize, like The Who, "I don't need to be forgiven." I just have to evaluate what is best for me on a personal level and decide if this existence is one that I can handle for one show only or if I want to make it a habit.



the product of capitalism.
tariki On September 16, 2012

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#34New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 07:55:10
@MadCornishBiker Said

Because it is an integral whole. why would anyone want to decide on mere scraps of evidence?



A perfect summing up of YOUR attitude. You determine each and every thing according to scraps.

Why?

Because you show - no matter what your claims - that your actual grasp or knowledge of any other way of being or knowing but the one you now follow is ZERO.

And the way you follow?

You have NEVER shown or demonstrated on this forum that the Bible is the "word of God". Never. Your appeal to "prophecies" has been refuted - though you have time and time again refused/avoided to address the countless points raised against them on various websites, where the arguments are such that to rely upon supposed "fulfilled" prophecy to justify the "inspired" nature of the Bible is problematic at best.

Even if the above claim is conceded..............You have NEVER shown on this forum, or demonstrated in any way whatsoever, that your understanding of "inspiration" is the correct one. i.e a literalist/fundamentalist one that can be "justified" by reaching some subjective claim that a particular reading is "without contradiction" and where the Word of God has yielded to "analysis." Once again, despite about five invitations to discuss other ways of understanding "inspiration" you have avoided such.

And even if the above claims are conceded.........You have never shown or demonstrated on this forum that your own interpretation is without contradiction.

Biker, ASSERTION AND BLUSTER are no substitute for reasoned argument.

So......Your claims that the Bible is God's word (exclusively, excluding all other words, all other claimants), that your understanding of inspiration is the correct one, that your interpretation of such an inspired Book is the correct one............are undemonstrated.

Do you understand?

Yet on this forum you state explicitly that no one has any excuse for not seeing the truth! i.e. YOUR truth!!!

More, that any who do not share it will be annihilated by God!!!!!!

Biker, you are a bigot. To read the definition of the word in any dictionary will show that you indeed fit the bill down to a "T". The cap fits. Please wear it!

And again, you are ignorant. Ignorant in the meaning of the word that you ignore all arguments, all logic, all facts, all everything, that does not support your own stance.

All the best

MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#35New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 10:20:14
@tariki Said

A perfect summing up of YOUR attitude. You determine each and every thing according to scraps.

Why?

Because you show - no matter what your claims - that your actual grasp or knowledge of any other way of being or knowing but the one you now follow is ZERO.

And the way you follow?

You have NEVER shown or demonstrated on this forum that the Bible is the "word of God". Never. Your appeal to "prophecies" has been refuted - though you have time and time again refused/avoided to address the countless points raised against them on various websites, where the arguments are such that to rely upon supposed "fulfilled" prophecy to justify the "inspired" nature of the Bible is problematic at best.

Even if the above claim is conceded..............You have NEVER shown on this forum, or demonstrated in any way whatsoever, that your understanding of "inspiration" is the correct one. i.e a literalist/fundamentalist one that can be "justified" by reaching some subjective claim that a particular reading is "without contradiction" and where the Word of God has yielded to "analysis." Once again, despite about five invitations to discuss other ways of understanding "inspiration" you have avoided such.

And even if the above claims are conceded.........You have never shown or demonstrated on this forum that your own interpretation is without contradiction.

Biker, ASSERTION AND BLUSTER are no substitute for reasoned argument.

So......Your claims that the Bible is God's word (exclusively, excluding all other words, all other claimants), that your understanding of inspiration is the correct one, that your interpretation of such an inspired Book is the correct one............are undemonstrated.

Do you understand?

Yet on this forum you state explicitly that no one has any excuse for not seeing the truth! i.e. YOUR truth!!!

More, that any who do not share it will be annihilated by God!!!!!!

Biker, you are a bigot. To read the definition of the word in any dictionary will show that you indeed fit the bill down to a "T". The cap fits. Please wear it!

And again, you are ignorant. Ignorant in the meaning of the word that you ignore all arguments, all logic, all facts, all everything, that does not support your own stance.

All the best



Yes Tariki I understand that you too, just like Bob are determined to be seen to be right, even against God's Holy Spirit. That simply shows your desperation to have things your way not God's.

It matters not whether I understand anything I only pass on what is given to me by Holy Spirit so it is not me you are criticising. And yes, such is my trust in God and His son, I am unshakable in that conviction.

The comment on my previous reply to you about carrying on elsewhere applies here too.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#36New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 10:49:53
@MadCornishBiker Said

I don't make mistakes of interpretation since I don't make interpretations I simply pass on what I am given by Holy Spirit.


So, when I prove that this is wrong, which I do below, your argument immediately loses all credibility (not that it has any anyway).

@MadCornishBiker Said

The fact that none of the others had seen Jesus "stigmata" also tends to indicate that he had the power to make them appear to satisfy Thomas. No wonder the man was so surprised.



@bob_the_fisherman Said

What? Could you explain that please? It does not seem to fit with the biblical account.

Luke 24:36-40: While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet.


So, despite your claim to the contrary, you are guilty of making an error of interpretation. Your belief is now shot, and we have little more to discuss.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#37New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 10:53:02
@MadCornishBiker Said

Yes Tariki I understand that you too, just like Bob are determined to be seen to be right, even against God's Holy Spirit. That simply shows your desperation to have things your way not God's.


Just out of interest, why is it always "desperation" when myself or others challenge your beliefs that are wrong? This is not desperation, it is perfectly normal.

@MadCornishBiker Said
It matters not whether I understand anything I only pass on what is given to me by Holy Spirit so it is not me you are criticising. And yes, such is my trust in God and His son, I am unshakable in that conviction.


So you do not then, "test" the spirits, despite the bible telling you to? Instead, you merely accept what you are given? That would explain why your belief is so wrong.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#38New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 11:20:03
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Just out of interest, why is it always "desperation" when myself or others challenge your beliefs that are wrong? This is not desperation, it is perfectly normal.


It is not the challenging my beliefs that shows your desperation, it is your insistence on attacking me and the JW, passing on lies about them, and completely twisting things that they and I have said in order to do so that makes the desperation so clear.

If you forgot about me and them, as I have suggested before, and concentrated in the scriptural reasons for the beliefs that would be normal and not desperate.

You cannot destroy the message because it comes from God, so you turn on me and them.

As someone else said, you can't argue with the message so you attack the messenger instead.


@bob_the_fisherman Said


So you do not then, "test" the spirits, despite the bible telling you to? Instead, you merely accept what you are given? That would explain why your belief is so wrong.


You see again you show your intention to twist what I say to mean more (or less) than it does, because that is what you want to think. Still at least this time you asked rather than just blustered as you so frequently do, but you loaded the question to try and elicit the answer you want to get.

You said - So you do not then, "test" the spirits - rather than - do you not? - That is what lawyers call a loaded question.

Of course I test the " the inspired expressions" to make sure they come from the right source, as you say, that is compulsory, and precisely what we have the bible for which is why I tell people on here and anywhere else I get the chance, to check what I say against scripture. Scripture is the final and only authority, wherever you get your information from.

God tells us to test it all out, and I trust Him to guide me through those tests.

I am more than aware that Satan can read scripture also, and twist it as you do, just like he tried to with the Christ in the wilderness, but I also know that God will guide me to enough scriptures to prove beyond any doubt that the answer is the right one.

Again that is all down to my trust in God.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#39New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 12:20:12
Please respond to post 36.

@MadCornishBiker Said

It is not the challenging my beliefs that shows your desperation, it is your insistence on attacking me and the JW, passing on lies about them, and completely twisting things that they and I have said in order to do so that makes the desperation so clear.


Again, you are wrong - this is becoming a very bad habit of yours. I gave you multiple quotes with references that you are either too lazy or scared to check. That only speaks of you, it says nothing at all about me.

You have not the slightest comprehension of my motivation - if you did, you would not use words like desperation in attempting to describe them. You *may* use words like disgust, but that is not even close to desperate.

Would you suggest that I am "desperate" to prove Islam wrong? After all, I read the texts of Islam in order to understand this religion. Would you say that I am "desperate" to prove animal liberationists wrong? After all, I argued with them at length, and picked apart their arguments repeatedly, pointing out their inconsistencies. In other words, I do nothing with you that I have not done with others.

I debate ideas because I seek truth.

@MadCornishBiker Said
If you forgot about me and them, as I have suggested before, and concentrated in the scriptural reasons for the beliefs that would be normal and not desperate.


Wrong again, as I do look at scripture, and repeatedly find your cult to be what it is - a cult full of liars and apostate frauds that have no honesty, decency or integrity. It is not unreasonable of me to point out examples of them acting without integrity - whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

@MadCornishBiker Said
You cannot destroy the message because it comes from God, so you turn on me and them.


Actually, I have showed you to be wrong quite a few times, so, clearly you are not God, nor are you of God, nor do you speak as God, nor are you infallibly speaking as guided by some infallible "Holy Spirit."

@MadCornishBiker Said
As someone else said, you can't argue with the message so you attack the messenger instead.


Yet again, you are wrong. How can someone that is infallible be simultaneously inerrantly wrong? It makes no sense. I may have to start calling you Pope MCB, as a Pope is the only other like you of which I am aware - self proclaiming infallibility on one hand, and being obviously wrong on the other.

I attack your message quite often, to be honest. You claim infallibility because "Holy Spirit" speaks through you, and I point out your errors. That is not an attack on you. And again, you constantly attacked me when we first started discussing this stuff ages ago - I can quote some of that for you too if you like. When you called me a dog, a swine, a liar, an apostate etc, all of this was fine and right and good apparently. Now that I give you back a little of your own medecine, you constantly sook about it.

You are reaping what you have sown.

@MadCornishBiker Said
You see again you show your intention to twist what I say to mean more (or less) than it does, because that is what you want to think.


Once again, you are wrong. You really are not very good at this whole infallibility thing are you? Every time you assert something, you are wrong, so your false claim to being the infallible vehicle of "Holy Spirit" is a self evident fraud.


@MadCornishBiker Said
Still at least this time you asked rather than just blustered as you so frequently do, but you loaded the question to try and elicit the answer you want to get.

You said - So you do not then, "test" the spirits - rather than - do you not? - That is what lawyers call a loaded question.


No, MCB, it is called a question. You said it does not matter if you even understand what you are given. This at the very least implied that you do not think critically about these 'revelations'. It was not an unreasonable question. Nor did I ask you to answer yes or no, or instruct you in any manner in which the question should be answered. There was nothing loaded in the question. I merely sought clarification.

@MadCornishBiker Said
Of course I test the " the inspired expressions" to make sure they come from the right source, as you say, that is compulsory, and precisely what we have the bible for which is why I tell people on here and anywhere else I get the chance, to check what I say against scripture. Scripture is the final and only authority, wherever you get your information from.


Yet, you have admitted you are fallible, so your understanding could be wrong. Unless you are now going to do that typical JW thing of saying that you are a thing you say your not because you are even though you aren't... But, honestly, you have to admit you are wrong, yet again.

@MadCornishBiker Said
God tells us to test it all out, and I trust Him to guide me through those tests.


Well now, that is just stupid reasoning. I trust "Holy Spirit" to tell me that "Holy Spirit" is always right because "Holy Spirit" is always right because I trust "Holy Spirit" to be always right because it says it is...

Nothing circular going in there at all...

@MadCornishBiker Said
I am more than aware that Satan can read scripture also, and twist it as you do, just like he tried to with the Christ in the wilderness, but I also know that God will guide me to enough scriptures to prove beyond any doubt that the answer is the right one.


That is all well and good, unless the answers you receive are in fact, wrong, as they in fact are. We both know that you do not infallibly speak as "Holy Spirit" infallibly teaches you because you have been wrong. You are therefore wrong about the infallibility of "Holy Spirit" or you are wrong about your infallible reciting or conveying of the message "Holy Spirit" gives you.

Honestly, that should be the end of the discussion, and we should now be moving on to a new topic. Your infallibility is shot. Your infallible proclamation of an infallible "Holy Spirit" is shot. It's over.

You are wrong, you have lost, now please, can we move on?

@MadCornishBiker Said
Again that is all down to my trust in God.


Actually, it seems to me you place more trust in yourself than you do in God. If you trusted God you would not claim infallibility, even by proxy, nor would you use decontextualised scripture to support it.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#40New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 12:30:52
Both philosophically and spiritually, I feel it's best to put aside thoughts about where we're going to end up...what happens when we die...what's in store...in essence, what the hell are we all going to get on Christmas morning?

My reasoning is that Pascal's wager is an exercise in the opposite of faith. If I'm consistently concerned with what happens to me when I die, I'm not paying enough attention really to all this stuff that's happening while I'm here. And if I'm only living my life as a preamble to an afterlife...if I am only striving to lead a good life out of a fear of what's coming when that life ends, it's really not worth the effort.

If I'm just hedging a bet that "Well...I may as well believe in afterlife because what have I got to lose?" it's less likely that any supreme being (at least in my rationale) is going to see my belief as genuine.

My life is a flash of light in between two darknesses that go interminably in opposite directions, and though those darknesses are are identical twins, most people spend that period of light fearing the latter and drawing dogmatic "knowledge" (iron-clad quotations there) from the former.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#41New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 13:07:10
@bob_the_fisherman Said

So, when I prove that this is wrong, which I do below, your argument immediately loses all credibility (not that it has any anyway).


You have yet to prove anything wrong Bob, you have only ever produced scriptures which you, or your teachers, have twisted the meaning to, and which I have produced many more to show you how you have misunderstood what you did.

I'll deal with your quotes below.

I said:

"The fact that none of the others had seen Jesus "stigmata" also tends to indicate that he had the power to make them appear to satisfy Thomas. No wonder the man was so surprised."

Just as a brief aside, I did not say no-one had seen them but I did obviously mean the others there at the time, as context shows, which I can only presume is why you avoided including it.


@bob_the_fisherman Said "

"Luke 24:36-40: While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet."

I notice that you have been very careful not to include the context of that statement of mine. The discussion was whether or not any had seen the stigmata before it was pointed out to them at the time that Thomas made his exclamation.

Talking of context lets put your quoted scripture in context shall we, and then maybe you can see that it does not disprove the point I was making in the discussion you have so conveniently removed my comment from without including context.

Luke 24:13-43 "But, look! on that very day two of them were journeying to a village about seven miles distant from Jerusalem [and] named Em·ma?us, 14 and they were conversing with each other over all these things that had come about.
15 Now as they were conversing and discussing, Jesus himself approached and began walking with them; 16 but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 He said to them: “What are these matters that YOU are debating between yourselves as YOU walk along?” And they stood still with sad faces. 18 In answer the one named Cle?o·pas said to him: “Are you dwelling as an alien by yourself in Jerusalem and so do not know the things that have occurred in her in these days?” 19 And he said to them: “What things?” They said to him: “The things concerning Jesus the Naz·a·rene?, who became a prophet powerful in work and word before God and all the people; 20 and how our chief priests and rulers handed him over to the sentence of death and impaled him. 21 But we were hoping that this [man] was the one destined to deliver Israel; yes, and besides all these things, this makes the third day since these things occurred. 22 Moreover, certain women from among us also astonished us, because they had been early to the memorial tomb 23 but did not find his body and they came saying they had also seen a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive. 24 Further, some of those with us went off to the memorial tomb; and they found it so, just as the women had said, but they did not see him.”
25 So he said to them: “O senseless ones and slow in heart to believe on all the things the prophets spoke! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?” 27 And commencing at Moses and all the Prophets he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.
28 Finally they got close to the village where they were journeying, and he made as if he was journeying on farther. 29 But they used pressure upon him, saying: “Stay with us, because it is toward evening and the day has already declined.” With that he went in to stay with them. 30 And as he was reclining with them at the meal he took the loaf, blessed it, broke it and began to hand it to them. 31 At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; and he disappeared from them. 32 And they said to each other: “Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?” 33 And in that very hour they rose and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled together, 34 saying: “For a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!” 35 Now they themselves related the [events] on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the loaf.
36 While they were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst [[and said to them: “May YOU have peace.”]] 37 But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. 38 So he said to them: “Why are YOU troubled, and why is it doubts come up in YOUR hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have.” 40 [[And as he said this he showed them his hands and his feet.]] 41 But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and were wondering, he said to them: “Do YOU have something there to eat?” 42 And they handed him a piece of broiled fish; 43 and he took it and ate it before their eyes."

Now are you trying to tell me that in all that time, walking with him, and taking with him, but not recognising him they had not noticed the very obvious stigmata on his hands and feet? Don't forget he would have been wearing sandals as was the custom, and would not have worn gloves so his hands would have been completely visible to them.

No Bob the only reason they didn't see them, as with the other disciples who were there with Thomas, was because they were not there until he made them appear. That much is obvious, so again despite your cunning you have failed to prove your point, and I have reinforced mine from Holy Spirit.

I also find the statement that he stood in their midst" before showing them the stigmata and they thought they had seen a ghost. Does that not suggest a sudden materialisation? It certainly does to me. Note it doesn't say that he approached them as scripture does in similar circumstances when he had a physical body.

Notice also that verse 31 says he disappeared from them, not he got up and went, but he disappeared from them, and then suddenly he was "stood in their midst". Also even thought they had by this time recognised him there was no mention of them seeing the stigmata when he handed them the bread, just when he showed the stigmata to them.

Use your head Bob if Satan hasn't got you too blinded to do so.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

So, despite your claim to the contrary, you are guilty of making an error of interpretation. Your belief is now shot, and we have little more to discuss.



Thank you Bob for giving me yet another opportunity to expose the false teachings you support, and showing you just how you are being blinded t the true meaning by Satan.

Once again Holy Spirit triumphs as it always will.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#42New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 13:10:35
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Please respond to post 36.



Again, you are wrong - this is becoming a very bad habit of yours. I gave you multiple quotes with references that you are either too lazy or scared to check. That only speaks of you, it says nothing at all about me.

You have not the slightest comprehension of my motivation - if you did, you would not use words like desperation in attempting to describe them. You *may* use words like disgust, but that is not even close to desperate.

Would you suggest that I am "desperate" to prove Islam wrong? After all, I read the texts of Islam in order to understand this religion. Would you say that I am "desperate" to prove animal liberationists wrong? After all, I argued with them at length, and picked apart their arguments repeatedly, pointing out their inconsistencies. In other words, I do nothing with you that I have not done with others.

I debate ideas because I seek truth.



Wrong again, as I do look at scripture, and repeatedly find your cult to be what it is - a cult full of liars and apostate frauds that have no honesty, decency or integrity. It is not unreasonable of me to point out examples of them acting without integrity - whether you like it or not is irrelevant.



Actually, I have showed you to be wrong quite a few times, so, clearly you are not God, nor are you of God, nor do you speak as God, nor are you infallibly speaking as guided by some infallible "Holy Spirit."



Yet again, you are wrong. How can someone that is infallible be simultaneously inerrantly wrong? It makes no sense. I may have to start calling you Pope MCB, as a Pope is the only other like you of which I am aware - self proclaiming infallibility on one hand, and being obviously wrong on the other.

I attack your message quite often, to be honest. You claim infallibility because "Holy Spirit" speaks through you, and I point out your errors. That is not an attack on you. And again, you constantly attacked me when we first started discussing this stuff ages ago - I can quote some of that for you too if you like. When you called me a dog, a swine, a liar, an apostate etc, all of this was fine and right and good apparently. Now that I give you back a little of your own medecine, you constantly sook about it.

You are reaping what you have sown.



Once again, you are wrong. You really are not very good at this whole infallibility thing are you? Every time you assert something, you are wrong, so your false claim to being the infallible vehicle of "Holy Spirit" is a self evident fraud.




No, MCB, it is called a question. You said it does not matter if you even understand what you are given. This at the very least implied that you do not think critically about these 'revelations'. It was not an unreasonable question. Nor did I ask you to answer yes or no, or instruct you in any manner in which the question should be answered. There was nothing loaded in the question. I merely sought clarification.



Yet, you have admitted you are fallible, so your understanding could be wrong. Unless you are now going to do that typical JW thing of saying that you are a thing you say your not because you are even though you aren't... But, honestly, you have to admit you are wrong, yet again.



Well now, that is just stupid reasoning. I trust "Holy Spirit" to tell me that "Holy Spirit" is always right because "Holy Spirit" is always right because I trust "Holy Spirit" to be always right because it says it is...

Nothing circular going in there at all...



That is all well and good, unless the answers you receive are in fact, wrong, as they in fact are. We both know that you do not infallibly speak as "Holy Spirit" infallibly teaches you because you have been wrong. You are therefore wrong about the infallibility of "Holy Spirit" or you are wrong about your infallible reciting or conveying of the message "Holy Spirit" gives you.

Honestly, that should be the end of the discussion, and we should now be moving on to a new topic. Your infallibility is shot. Your infallible proclamation of an infallible "Holy Spirit" is shot. It's over.

You are wrong, you have lost, now please, can we move on?



Actually, it seems to me you place more trust in yourself than you do in God. If you trusted God you would not claim infallibility, even by proxy, nor would you use decontextualised scripture to support it.


I do not claim infallibility except for God and Holy Spirit, I have always denied any infallibility on my part, and as I continually say, but you try to avoid, I rely entirely on them and scripture.

I don't doubt I have missed some of your points but if, as you did with #36 you point them out to me I always go looking, as you know.

Bluster all you like Bob, you cannot argue with Holy Spirit, and nor will I ever.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#43New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 13:24:53
@MadCornishBiker Said
"The fact that none of the others had seen Jesus "stigmata" also tends to indicate that he had the power to make them appear to satisfy Thomas. No wonder the man was so surprised." Just as a brief aside, I did not say no-one had seen them but I did obviously mean the others there at the time, as context shows, which I can only presume is why you avoided including it.


Once again, you are wrong. This is actually getting boring.

@MadCornishBiker Said


It seems you don't fully understand it. The JW belief, and mine, is that Jesus did have a resurrection into a human body, though judging from that fact that his intimate associates didn't recognise him after that resurrection until either they were told, or they realised that his mannerisms and speech was the same it seems apparent that it was not his original body. That also fits in with the biblical promise of a general resurrection onto the earth of the masses. They will all have to be given new bodies since theirs will have disintegrated long ago.

However it is unlikely to happen in the form that the churches believed in the 19th century, when it was believed that the dead would simply pop up out of their graves. This is why in some older churchyards the flock were buried with their heads to the west and the clergy were buried with their heads to the east so they would pop-up facing their flock.

The fact that none of the others had seen Jesus "stigmata" also tends to indicate that he had the power to make them appear to satisfy Thomas. No wonder the man was so surprised.


This is the full context of your quote.

You said that none of the others had seen Jesus stigmata, and I pointed out that you were wrong.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#44New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 15:45:47
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Once again, you are wrong. This is actually getting boring.



This is the full context of your quote.

You said that none of the others had seen Jesus stigmata, and I pointed out that you were wrong.



That is not the full context of the quote and you know it. The context of the quote was our discussion about Jesus showing the Stigmata to Thomas, and as far as scripture tells us the two in the quote from Luke you brought out were not amongst those with Thomas. Do you actually know what "context" means?

The bible only tells of those two occasions when the stigmata were viewed, and as you should know if you know anything about Christ's sacrifice there is no way Christ could have returned in physical body, that would have invalidated the sacrifice. On top of that a physical body cannot just appear and disappear as the scripture from Luke says Christ did, only a materialised spirit body can do that.

Face it Bob your treasured belief is wrong as you will learn one day, hopefully not when it is too late for you to change. I now you hate the thought of that, but truth is truth whether we like it or not, so learn to accept it for what it is.

Of course it's getting boring, no-one enjoys being shown to be wrong so often, and you should know you cannot beat Holy Spirit.

You cannot fight against Holy Spirit as you are doing Bob, it is a constantly losing battle.
burnick On December 02, 2012




, Philippines
#45New Post! Sep 10, 2012 @ 15:51:15
long argument im slow
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