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When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

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white_swan53 On October 07, 2020




n/a, New Mexico
#46New Post! May 31, 2019 @ 06:27:13
@Erimitus Said

Education/Information is often dangerous to those that want to control.


That is why it was illegal to educate slaves.



@mrmhead Said

I just saw on some show that there was a "Slaves Bible" - in which references to freedom and equality were removed. Just the stuff about "Obey" was left in.


It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the white men went to, to make sure the woman they called wife and the black people they called slave never learned the truth.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#47New Post! May 31, 2019 @ 11:46:46
@white_swan53 Said

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the white men went to, to make sure the woman they called wife and the black people they called slave never learned the truth.



I was thinking the same thing - though "depravity" was the term that came to mind - and generalizing it to humans.

But yes, your preciseness is correct too.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#48New Post! May 31, 2019 @ 18:08:23
@mrmhead Said

I just saw on some show that there was a "Slaves Bible" - in which references to freedom and equality were removed. Just the stuff about "Obey" was left in.



Much if not all of the Bible, as I see it, is about the master (GOD) and slave (humans). You, I suppose, would not want a slave to read Ester.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#49New Post! May 31, 2019 @ 18:11:55
@white_swan53 Said

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the white men went to, to make sure the woman they called wife and the black people they called slave never learned the truth.



the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#50New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 18:27:11
@Eaglebauer Said

Perhaps.

I think it's more realistic that it began as a method of enforcing herd mentality (which in my opinion was actually an unfortunate necessity at one point in ancient history if the human race was going to evolve at all socially and eventually technologically) and that it morphed over time to become an economic mechanism as well. The church did become one of the largest political powers in the history of man, but I don't think the danger of hell was posited for that purpose. I think it was posited to snap people into line for the purpose of keeping them from killing and raping each other into extinction and allowing a few to have governing power over the rest. I think the con game that followed was not a part of the original intent.



Really, all of them? You don't think at least some of them actually believe what they are saying? You think every last one of them today is deliberately trying to deceive the rest of the world?

That's a pretty grim, and I think also pretty unrealistic view.


You may not have talked to as many clergy as I have.

They are usually well educated and the more one educates ones self about the bible, the less likely one will remain Christian.

You might want to believe that a priest is as gullible as his sheeple but I will go by what I know. Sur there might be a true believing preacher, but if you know the bible, you will know that Jesus said any like him, if real, could do all he did and more.

Have you seen a preacher do miracles? Rhetorical.
Neither have I.

Me 1. Jesus 0.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#51New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 18:33:18
@chaski Said

But the question was "When and why..?"

So, short answer:

The when was: The early days of the formation of the Church; 325 BC and the years following.

The why was: Power (not "cash" ).

Longer answer:

> When christianity was formed, "it" wasn't about cash. "Cash" didn't exist in quite the same way back then as it does today. Back then it was about power and control of people.

The Emperor Constantine essentially created Christianity as we know it today. Prior to him there were numerous competing sects. He gathered the leaders, the so called biships of the day and told them to all get on one page... compile one codex/cannon of beliefs. This became the bible and the early cannon of the church...

Constantine wanted "it" organized so "it" could be controlled.

Constantine already had the power and wealth, but wanted to control this new religion so that it did not become a source of rebellion and uprising in his empire.

Much later the church... back then the Holy Roman Catholic Church... then determined to consolidate its own power. This happened because the Roman Empire, over time, was replaced by other conquerors and later kingdoms and later countries.

Back in those days, land and gold (and silver) were the primary things of wealth. (Yes there were other things as well). The church then began to convince people to buy there salvation.

There are many more details to this but that is the core of it.

So, {now} "it" is often about "cash", which can buy power. Back in the day... in the "begining" days of the Christian Church, it was about power and control of the people.

It is and was very simple back in the day: Power and control.


We have no argument other than I meld power and cash together.

You will know that when Constantine sent his church out to kill dissenters who did not like the new Christianity and burned their heretical holy books, laws were also put in place where the inquisitors could and did confiscate property, temples and holdings of the heretical groups they decimated. That was a lot of wealth and cash.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#52New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 18:43:20
@Cpat92 Said

Matthew 25:46


Matthew 25:46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Scriptures also say that the many will end in hell while the very few will end in heaven.

Fact. Jesus said he came to cure and not kill. I come for the ill and not the well.

Fact. Yahweh kills instead of cures those in hell, which is the opposite of what Jesus' attitude was.

Only one of these facts is moral thinking and ethical actions.

Who is doing the wrong thing? Jesus or Yahweh?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#53New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 18:50:21
@gakINGKONG Said

Revelation 20. From there we know at least three creatures will suffer in eternal torment in a place called the lake of fire.


I thought that that where god will dump hell at our --- second death.


Which ends the eternal suffering, which of course means that the suffering imposed on souls to that point would have been purposeless torture. IOW, god showing himself to be a really vile demiurge.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#54New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 18:59:12
@Cpat92 Said

No. Mainly on Facebook. I told them something that they didn’t like.

Christians, Jews and Muslims serve the same God. They got so upset.


I would argue against that view.

Christians and Muslims are idol worshiping literalists.

Jews, from what I gather, are not literalists nor idol worshipers.
I guess I would have to exclude the Jews for Jesus branch but otherwise, as I understand it, Karaite Jews, are the branch that control the beliefs and they, like we Gnostic Christians put man above god, as we should, given that all the gods are man made.

The Karaite Jews control the traditional oral tradition which leads the orthodoxy.

I think that they and Chrestians originally formed what is now Gnostic Christianity as we all though along the same lines.

Regardless. Here is the thinking on literalism. I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
https://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#55New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 19:03:45
@gakINGKONG Said

Understand.

All from Abraham. That's actual history.


Do you also believe in talking serpents and donkeys?

Please read what I just put above as it shows that Jews do not read their scriptures literally and neither should anyone else who cares to keep his thinking out of a supernatural realm that they cannot possibly know exists, as explained in the link above.

The is why Christianity begins by saying that god is unknowable and unfathomable.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#56New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 19:18:01
@Electric_Banana Said

A couple of rabbit holes which may be relevant:

1. A larger constituency of humans suffering from a glitch in the system that results in telepathy have mistaken themselves collectively as 'god' because of the uncanny ability
That constituency then proceeds to blacklist anyone not associated with their church by making things hard for them in ways of commerce and employment thus giving the appearance that the individual is being routed by a disembodied wisdom when it's really a large number of arrogant humans d***ing the individual about.

2. Knowledge is necessary but enough of it in the wrong hands could give man the blueprints to not only prevent the human soul from moving on but maybe keeping it contained in an unpleasant artificial reality.

3. The basic concept of our current environment is 'Don't Starve'
We have been left here to our own device with only a butthole, set of teeth and others whom we prefer to consider company....this is not a good recipe for love and friendship


1. Where did you get this collective telepathy idea?

My telepathy just confirmed that my initial arrogance was justified on religious issues but nowhere else. It also insured that I would never call myself a Christian and it helped my determine that my best path was to call myself a Gnostic Christian.

2. What do you mean when you say soul and where do you see it moving on to?

3. Love and friendship is in most religions, for their in group members but also has a hate and unfriendliness towards those not in the group.

You might have noted that most wars are created by the religious.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#57New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 19:22:19
@gakINGKONG Said

Even before Christ arrived, a prophet was sent to warn of pending judgment.

The source material for the fall of man and condemnation originates in the book of Genesis.


Eh. No.

Jews do not recognize Eden as where man fell. That is why they do not have an Original sin concept. They see it as where man was elevated.

https://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/20/comparative-theodicy/
‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

The bottom line to Eden is, they have become as gods in the knowing of good and evil. That is, man developed a moral sense.

Do you see that as good or evil?

Regards
DL



Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#58New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 19:26:56
@mrmhead Said

I just saw on some show that there was a "Slaves Bible" - in which references to freedom and equality were removed. Just the stuff about "Obey" was left in.



https://imgur.com/IBroXK9



Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#59New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 20:00:51
@white_swan53 Said

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths the white men went to, to make sure the woman they called wife and the black people they called slave never learned the truth.


I don't think I would call Middle Eastern people white.

I think the Jews see themselves as olive skinned and it is Jewish writers that put the bible together.

If you were talking about the U.S. experience, then I hear you and ignore what I put above.

Regards
DL
chaski On about 12 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#60New Post! Jun 01, 2019 @ 20:08:52
@gakINGKONG Said


All from Abraham. That's actual history.


Since there is no proof that Abraham ever even existed, it isn't "actual history".

It is actual religion.
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