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When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man?

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Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#16New Post! May 23, 2019 @ 17:17:23
According to the Bible, it has always existed. One of the main topics in many of Jesus' lectures.
Leon On March 30, 2024




San Diego, California
#17New Post! May 23, 2019 @ 18:40:13
@Cpat92 Said

According to the Bible, it has always existed. One of the main topics in many of Jesus' lectures.


Hell? Which verses?
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#18New Post! May 23, 2019 @ 19:57:49
@Cpat92 Said

According to the Bible, it has always existed. One of the main topics in many of Jesus' lectures.



can you recall a verse?
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#19New Post! May 23, 2019 @ 20:36:10
@Cpat92 Said

According to the Bible, it has always existed. One of the main topics in many of Jesus' lectures.



@Leon Said

Hell? Which verses?



@Erimitus Said

can you recall a verse?


Ok..

There are numerous verses in the Old Testament that refer to hell. However, the meaning of the word(s) used typically is translated as either "below ground", "place of the dead", "hades", etc

The "hell" that we think of as fire and brimstone, eternal damnation, etc didn't come until the New Testament... which was compiled in the early 300's AD at the direction of the Emperor Constantine.

(Note: Some will claim that the idea was in existence in some Jewish sects... just before the coming of Jesus.... it is a reasonable assumption that some people may have had this belief prior to the formation of christianity... of course the early chrisitans had all kinds of things they believed in as did the various mythologies around the region and in fact around the world over the centuries.)

In more modern times, many people have re-translated the bible, and have sometimes inserted their Christian belief in/of hell to some of the OT translations.

This is not at all surprising as people have been translating and interpreting the bible to suit their needs since its inception.

Still, if "you" go back to the unadulterated text "you" be hard put to find the Christian version of hell described in the OT.

So, again, the answer to When did Christianity invent hell and god’s imaginary condemnation of man? is: The early 300's AD with the formation of the bible and creation of the unified christian church and doctrine.
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#20New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 00:07:21
@Erimitus Said

can you recall a verse?



Not off the top of my head but within the first three books of the New Testament there are many.

Side note: I’m still being attacked by Conservative Christians over a recent statement.
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#21New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 00:44:26
@Cpat92 Said


Side note: I’m still being attacked by Conservative Christians over a recent statement.


It is to be expected.

The truth is a very scary thing.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#22New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 01:15:09
See!! This thread is questioning the bible and gosh darned it!!


It Looks Like Hell!!!
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#23New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 01:52:35
@mrmhead Said

See!! This thread is questioning the bible and gosh darned it!!


It Looks Like Hell!!!



You just want more insect porn!



Leon On March 30, 2024




San Diego, California
#24New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 03:15:46
Still waiting for the specific verses that reference Hell. Anyone?
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#25New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 05:00:12
@Leon Said

Still waiting for the specific verses that reference Hell. Anyone?



Matthew 25:46
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#26New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 05:04:50
@Leon Said

Still waiting for the specific verses that reference Hell. Anyone?


Note: The word "hell" isn't in the bible. This isn't at all surprising since "hell" is an english word and the bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek. The words used were typically Sheol and Hades. More typically what "we" call "hell" was described in various ways, sometimes including the idea of eternal suffering.

There are numerous passages, but as a staring point here are a few:

Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Matthew 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Psalm 9:17
17 The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God.

Matthew 13:50
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jude 1:7
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Proverbs 15:24
24 The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead.

Matthew 13:42
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:13-14
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Etc.
Leon On March 30, 2024




San Diego, California
#27New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 05:27:27
@chaski Said

Note: The word "hell" isn't in the bible. This isn't at all surprising since "hell" is an english word and the bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek. The words used were typically Sheol and Hades. More typically what "we" call "hell" was described in various ways, sometimes including the idea of eternal suffering.

There are numerous passages, but as a staring point here are a few:

Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Matthew 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Psalm 9:17
17 The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God.

Matthew 13:50
50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jude 1:7
7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Proverbs 15:24
24 The path of life leads upward for the prudent to keep them from going down to the realm of the dead.

Matthew 13:42
42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:13-14
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Etc.


Thanks.

And yes, I know the literal word “hell” isn’t in there, but I was interested if any synonym existed for any similarly known place of continual suffering. Most of these verses don’t present such, as I don’t see any of them specifically presenting a result that differs usually than that of anything that gets thrown into a fire or the likes of it. “Eternal punishment” is different than “eternal suffering”, as it could just as easily represent the finality of perishment.

And Psalms is poetry. Not meant to be taken literally. Same pretty much goes with the allegorically dripping book of Revelations.

Bottom line, there is no verse that says we will stay alive forever outside of heaven and earth.
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#28New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 05:42:42
@Leon Said

Bottom line, there is no verse that says we will stay alive forever outside of heaven and earth.


We could argue this point... you are "eternally punished" by not "alive" for the punishment doesn't make a great deal of sense. Sure, it could be that your eternal punishment is that you are eternally wiped out and no longer exist... or you are eternally cast in to a state of suffering in the the burning lake of fire....etc.

Regardless it is part of the point to of the Christian view:

1st. There is life on earth.

2nd. If you follow Jesus (are saved by Jesus), then after your earthly death you get to go to heave; aka life... eternal life...etc.

3rd. If you don't follow Jesus you get eternal punishment.... sometimes called hell, eternal punishment, or death or... etc... etc....

There are somewhat contradictory description of that eternal punishment, but they all feed into what Christians believe to be "hell". The idea of "hell" is not coming from nowhere... it is coming directly from the Bible... and people's interpretation of the bible.

The push of the interpretation of the bible meaning their is a "hell" comes from the doctrine of the church as formatted by early bishops who were assigned by the Emperor Constantine, who had an agenda: Control the Masses.
Leon On March 30, 2024




San Diego, California
#29New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 05:50:31
@chaski Said

We could argue this point... you are "eternally punished" by not "alive" for the punishment doesn't make a great deal of sense. Sure, it could be that your eternal punishment is that you are eternally wiped out and no longer exist... or you are eternally cast in to a state of suffering in the the burning lake of fire....etc.

Regardless it is part of the point to of the Christian view:

1st. There is life on earth.

2nd. If you follow Jesus (are saved by Jesus), then after your earthly death you get to go to heave; aka life... eternal life...etc.

3rd. If you don't follow Jesus you get eternal punishment.... sometimes called hell, eternal punishment, or death or... etc... etc....

There are somewhat contradictory description of that eternal punishment, but they all feed into what Christians believe to be "hell". The idea of "hell" is not coming from nowhere... it is coming directly from the Bible... and people's interpretation of the bible.

The push of the interpretation of the bible meaning their is a "hell" comes from the doctrine of the church as formatted by early bishops who were assigned by the Emperor Constantine, who had an agenda: Control the Masses.


Makes sense to me. When Ted Buddy was “given the chair”, to say he was “eternally punished” would seem to me to be be pretty accurate when referring to its finality. To unite this with a never ending state of suffering would seem like the added interpretative embellishment.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#30New Post! May 24, 2019 @ 12:28:46
@Leon Said

Thanks.

And yes, I know the literal word “hell” isn’t in there, but I was interested if any synonym existed for any similarly known place of continual suffering. Most of these verses don’t present such, as I don’t see any of them specifically presenting a result that differs usually than that of anything that gets thrown into a fire or the likes of it. “Eternal punishment” is different than “eternal suffering”, as it could just as easily represent the finality of perishment.

And Psalms is poetry. Not meant to be taken literally. Same pretty much goes with the allegorically dripping book of Revelations.

Bottom line, there is no verse that says we will stay alive forever outside of heaven and earth.


As to the origins of "hell" (my scholarly studies consisted of some casual Port 80 research)
Gehenna had a trash pit that burned "eternally" and stank. Some myths include the burning of bodies in the pit. And for some reason Gehenna is sometimes translated to "Hell". Of course there is debate as to its actual existence (the trash pit), and reference.... I think there were references in the bible to Gehenna, but I'll leave that to someone who has actually read it.

I forgot all the details, but it was an interesting few hours while reading about it.
And it was probably spurred by a thread here on TFS.
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