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What is 'Toxic Masculinity' Really?

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Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#76New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 13:29:59
@Cpat92 Said

I'm not a fan of math.



I read this much, much too fast and thought you said "I'm not a man of faith" and was dumbfounded as to what skunky's post had to do with your response.

mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#77New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 13:38:09
@Eaglebauer Said

I read this much, much too fast and thought you said "I'm not a man of faith" and was dumbfounded as to what skunky's post had to do with your response.



Some of us choose to follow the path laid down before us - even if it is by a rainbow-farting unicorn!
Darkman666 On about 1 hour ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#78New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 13:52:42
just because rainbow unicorns are beautiful doesn't mean their farts are beautiful. I dated one and believe me she was a stinker, we go camping and need fire. I just put a match in front of her a** and she aim at the firewood. flameo!
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#79New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 15:28:15
@darkman666 Said

just because rainbow unicorns are beautiful doesn't mean their farts are beautiful. I dated one and believe me she was a stinker, we go camping and need fire. I just put a match in front of her a** and she aim at the firewood. flameo!



I feel like this explains some of the forest fires that has happened in the past.
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#80New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 19:27:28
@Cpat92 Said

The second paragraph proves why it is wrong.


Can you elaborate on this?
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#81New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 19:44:48
@Cpat92 Said

Society isn't progressing whether, or not we point out these flaws. I'm more than willing than help members of society, but I'm not going to neglect science and replace it with political correctness, or any nonsense.


Which parts do you disagree with and what are your evidence-based reasons for doing so?
Darkman666 On about 1 hour ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#82New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 20:19:03
@Cpat92 Said

I feel like this explains some of the forest fires that has happened in the past.


we always blame smokey the bear for farting and causing fires. I had doubts with yogi bear and boobie are not that innocent, either. this unicorn probably logical suspect, especially he is not only not in union, but he is a forest ranger.
DiscordTiger On December 04, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#83New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 21:10:19
@Cpat92 Said

Society isn't progressing whether, or not we point out these flaws. I'm more than willing than help members of society, but I'm not going to neglect science and replace it with political correctness, or any nonsense.



Again, what exactly do think is nonsense about being respectful and treating everyone like they are a human being and how does that negate science?
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#84New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 22:52:06
@DiscordTiger Said

Again, what exactly do think is nonsense about being respectful and treating everyone like they are a human being and how does that negate science?



You asking this is twisting what I am trying to explain to you. You believe we need to point out flaws in different groups as it may help society. In psychology, the goal is to help society progress with fact-based evidence. This is with common knowledge that the entire world is flawed. There is nothing wrong with being respectful and treating everyone as a human being.

How about this: How would you feel if you were constantly told that you, or your parents are flawed due to your way(s) of life?

This happened to multiple communities and they treated such news the same way men and some women are treating toxic masculinity. I'm planning on becoming a counselor. My purpose in life is not to go to different members, or groups in society and tell them they are wrong, or how they live life, or was raised is wrong. I am not here to point out the negative aspects within one's masculinity, because they are incorrect, or doesn't fit within societal norms. My purpose is to help you with issues you are dealing with, find the cause and find the solution to help it. Unlike what many people believe, I would like to do this on a client to client basis.

If a decent human being can point out flaws within a group of individuals, I, as a decent human being can disagree. Even if it's with the APA. Luckily, if things don't work out, there are multiple psychology organizations I am able to join that may, or may not agree with the APA on this subject.
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#85New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 22:52:56
@darkman666 Said

we always blame smokey the bear for farting and causing fires. I had doubts with yogi bear and boobie are not that innocent, either. this unicorn probably logical suspect, especially he is not only not in union, but he is a forest ranger.



I had to press charges on Yogi for stealing my picnic basket for the 4th time this year. I heard Boo Boo went to rehab last week.
DiscordTiger On December 04, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#86New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 23:32:37
@Cpat92 Said

You asking this is twisting what I am trying to explain to you. You believe we need to point out flaws in different groups as it may help society. In psychology, the goal is to help society progress with fact-based evidence. This is with common knowledge that the entire world is flawed. There is nothing wrong with being respectful and treating everyone as a human being.

How about this: How would you feel if you were constantly told that you, or your parents are flawed due to your way(s) of life?

This happened to multiple communities and they treated such news the same way men and some women are treating toxic masculinity. I'm planning on becoming a counselor. My purpose in life is not to go to different members, or groups in society and tell them they are wrong, or how they live life, or was raised is wrong. I am not here to point out the negative aspects within one's masculinity, because they are incorrect, or doesn't fit within societal norms. My purpose is to help you with issues you are dealing with, find the cause and find the solution to help it. Unlike what many people believe, I would like to do this on a client to client basis.

If a decent human being can point out flaws within a group of individuals, I, as a decent human being can disagree. Even if it's with the APA. Luckily, if things don't work out, there are multiple psychology organizations I am able to join that may, or may not agree with the APA on this subject.


I don't believe we have to point out flaws in groups of people. I believe individuals have flaws. i supposes you could group together individuals with flaws. but that is not exactly what I think you mean.

and I have been constantly told my entire existence and my parents existence is "flawed" by society. Hell that happens so often its just another day of the week. I can't go a single day without it coming up.

That's also not what the guidelines for men and boys actually say, nor is it what the guidelines for women and girls have said for a decade. (though those will be reissued later this year, since they expire soon)


All i keep pointing out is your use of the phrase "politically correct" as this awful thing, when all it simply asks for is being respectful. And that it somehow is anti-science. Besides, Psychology is not a hard science, there is no defined right or wrong answer. In many parts, it falls under the "arts" rather the "sciences" depending on if it deals with the generalizations of social groups, not to say they don't use the scientific method or mathematics to analyze data, but there is high level of subjectivity in the interpretation of results. Then add in the media and things get sensationalized super easily.

If you mean something other than that, then come out and say it instead of hiding behind "being PC" as the evil boogeyman killing all the good things. What exactly are those good things? because a lot of the things that have changed by being respectful to others different than us are actually pretty s***ty things.
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#87New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 23:55:05
@nooneinparticular Said

Which parts do you disagree with and what are your evidence-based reasons for doing so?



@DiscordTiger Said

I don't believe we have to point out flaws in groups of people. I believe individuals have flaws. i supposes you could group together individuals with flaws. but that is not exactly what I think you mean.

and I have been constantly told my entire existence and my parents existence is "flawed" by society. Hell that happens so often its just another day of the week. I can't go a single day without it coming up.

That's also not what the guidelines for men and boys actually say, nor is it what the guidelines for women and girls have said for a decade. (though those will be reissued later this year, since they expire soon)


All i keep pointing out is your use of the phrase "politically correct" as this awful thing, when all it simply asks for is being respectful. And that it somehow is anti-science. Besides, Psychology is not a hard science, there is no defined right or wrong answer. In many parts, it falls under the "arts" rather the "sciences" depending on if it deals with the generalizations of social groups, not to say they don't use the scientific method or mathematics to analyze data, but there is high level of subjectivity in the interpretation of results. Then add in the media and things get sensationalized super easily.

If you mean something other than that, then come out and say it instead of hiding behind "being PC" as the evil boogeyman killing all the good things. What exactly are those good things? because a lot of the things that have changed by being respectful to others different than us are actually pretty s***ty things.



Psychology is under both arts and science. That's why there are individuals who can graduate with the bachelors in arts instead of bachelors in science. I utilize the term politically correct, because it is a term that has been used often, especially in this subject. I don't only refer to the guidelines. I disagree with the guidelines, because I strongly believe we don't need guidelines. With the fact that our scientific theories are falsifiable, toxic masculinity is also falsifiable. Political Correctness may have originally had the purpose of aiding the progression of society with respectfulness and acceptance, but from my point of view and with what I see, that isn't necessarily the case any longer. I see political correctness as another tainted tool, that can't completely be to help us.

In all honesty, we don't even need it to be good human beings.
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#88New Post! Feb 13, 2019 @ 02:32:10
@Cpat92 Said

Psychology is under both arts and science. That's why there are individuals who can graduate with the bachelors in arts instead of bachelors in science. I utilize the term politically correct, because it is a term that has been used often, especially in this subject. I don't only refer to the guidelines. I disagree with the guidelines, because I strongly believe we don't need guidelines. With the fact that our scientific theories are falsifiable, toxic masculinity is also falsifiable. Political Correctness may have originally had the purpose of aiding the progression of society with respectfulness and acceptance, but from my point of view and with what I see, that isn't necessarily the case any longer. I see political correctness as another tainted tool, that can't completely be to help us.

In all honesty, we don't even need it to be good human beings.


We don't need guidelines on how to better facilitate and connect with male patients and help them to be comfortable with seeking help? Depression and suicide are heightened risk factors among disenfranchised men. Every psychological study on the topic I can remember reading points to this. How are we to help facilitate male mental health without guidelines? How are we to get male patients comfortable enough to open up enough to actually address their underlying issues? Or are we to assume that by saying we don't need guidelines on how to better facilitate care, that male mental health is just fine where it is?

I get that you have a problem with PC, but these guidelines are not part of that conversation. These are not guidelines about how to raise boys and be men. In fact, it's actually really blunt about how it is not about that at all. It talks about how therapy can be more accommodating to men, how to create a support program for men, how to encourage men to seek help when they need it. Is that part of PC culture too? Encouraging men to take care of themselves mentally, to seek help when they need it?
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#89New Post! Feb 13, 2019 @ 03:43:31
@nooneinparticular Said

We don't need guidelines on how to better facilitate and connect with male patients and help them to be comfortable with seeking help? Depression and suicide are heightened risk factors among disenfranchised men. Every psychological study on the topic I can remember reading points to this. How are we to help facilitate male mental health without guidelines? How are we to get male patients comfortable enough to open up enough to actually address their underlying issues? Or are we to assume that by saying we don't need guidelines on how to better facilitate care, that male mental health is just fine where it is?

I get that you have a problem with PC, but these guidelines are not part of that conversation. These are not guidelines about how to raise boys and be men. In fact, it's actually really blunt about how it is not about that at all. It talks about how therapy can be more accommodating to men, how to create a support program for men, how to encourage men to seek help when they need it. Is that part of PC culture too? Encouraging men to take care of themselves mentally, to seek help when they need it?



No. Why would we need more guidelines than what we already have. Are the methods psychologists and counselors used not good enough?

As I have stated, scientific theories are falsifiable. I've read articles concerning this as well, but I know that they aren't always correct. Is it wrong that I challenge these guidelines? Is it wrong that I feel they are unnecessary and some of the information is incorrect?

I believe that people can be decent individuals without gender specific guidelines, regardless of who has made them. Whether you agree or not, these guidelines can tie into PC and possibly do. It doesn't have to say it in the guidelines, so they can be a part of this conversation.
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#90New Post! Feb 13, 2019 @ 04:27:18
@Cpat92 Said

No. Why would we need more guidelines than what we already have. Are the methods psychologists and counselors used not good enough?


Abstractly, Psychology, like all major scientific fields, is not a dead one. It is constantly evolving with new information, new techniques, and new procedures to create better outcomes. From that perspective, Psychology always has room to grow and should strive to be better than it was yesterday and not settle for good enough.

Specifically to the field itself, while great strides in psychology and psychiatry have been made in a relatively short amount of time, studies conducted about relapse rates have been rather short of perfect, so in that regard the field has a long way to go still. Not to mention all the things we simply don't understand about the human brain and it's interactions with society.

Even more specifically to the subject of male mental health, men have a disproportionately high rate of successful suicide, and it would probably behoove the mental health community to figure out how to treat this demographic.

Quote:

As I have stated, scientific theories are falsifiable. I've read articles concerning this as well, but I know that they aren't always correct. Is it wrong that I challenge these guidelines? Is it wrong that I feel they are unnecessary and some of the information is incorrect?


Objections should be based on evidence, not on feeling. You have not voiced a single concern regarding the science on which the guidelines are based. All you have stated for the past several pages is that such guidelines are apparently unnecessary, could damage the emotions of some whom you think are being blamed by these guidelines, and a part of the PC agenda.

If you wish to challenge these guidelines on the basis that they are replacing science with political correctness, then perhaps you could use an evidence based argument to support such an assertion. Likewise if you wish to throw the science into question, perhaps you could use something more concrete then vague assertions of mistrust of the people who conducted the studies and actually address your problems with them with evidence.

Quote:

I believe that people can be decent individuals without gender specific guidelines, regardless of who has made them. Whether you agree or not, these guidelines can tie into PC and possibly do. It doesn't have to say it in the guidelines, so they can be a part of this conversation.


Can you please cite anything in the guidelines that says that people cannot be decent individuals without adhering to these guidelines? I've read these guidelines over more carefully specifically looking out for judgments or condemnations of all men, and I came away with one thought, these guidelines are specifically meant for disenfranchised men and mental health workers working with them. No one else is the focus of these guidelines.
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