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What is 'Toxic Masculinity' Really?

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Cpat92 On about 3 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#1New Post! Jan 28, 2019 @ 18:07:16
Have you heard of the phrase, Toxic Masculinity? What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's something that is real, or something created to further separate individuals?

From what I go in an article, Toxic Masculinity is basically the 'incorrect' things we were taught about being a man. It also explains what happens when certain men behave a certain way (obviously in a negative way) when being a man goes wrong. Someone asked on twitter, in which Terry Crews gave an interesting response while utilizing his father as an example. In a way, I can see where it can quite easily be taken the wrong way and create much more controversy between individuals. Especially between men and women. While I agree that some teachings are wrong and should be removed, I don't think it should have been labeled because now individuals can be labeled as one with toxic masculinity, when it could be something much deeper. Some findings they used as examples, may be inaccurate now as it was in the past. I didn't see much on toxic femininity, but from what they told in the article (though brief) it the opposite and make it seem like those with toxic femininity is suffering while men with toxic masculinity are not and their victims are. It also says the victims are women and children (basically wife and kids), but I believe it is not completely true, because one who tends to be violent will not only attack minors and their spouses.

That's all I have on it thus far. I plan on looking more into it and actually may ask some of my professors who may know. What is your opinion on it? I would like your take on this as well.
Leon On about 2 hours ago




San Diego, California
#2New Post! Jan 28, 2019 @ 18:50:19
If you go to the extreme either way, it can have negative effects.

Masculinity, and recognizing the inherent differences between males an females is NOT a negative thing, and, in fact, can be a good thing.

It’s when it is taken to the extreme to the point where it is believed men are not allowed to have emotional feelings, are meant to be sexually aggressive or dominant over their wives, etc, that it is a problem (or, if you will, defined as “toxic”.)

Or when the reaction to the above is taken to the other extreme, to the point men and women are supposed to have the same exact emotional landscape on everything, sexual urges, interests (including professional), bonds with children, etc, when, in fact, they do not, then we create huge problems as a society as well.

The ideal would be to get rid of the stereotypes and expectations and let people be and accept them for who they are.

Yes, when we do so, men and women will end up different than each other in terms of emotions and reactions to things, yes, men and women will have different types and levels of sexual desires and needs, yes, men and women will each gravitate towards certain professions more so than the other will, and yes, men and women will have different types of bonds and relationships with their children.

But these differences between the sexes and the way they play out should be accepted, admired, and constructively built upon rather than looked down upon or erased. Such differences are as inherent by nature as anatomy itself and I would even venture to say that a society isn’t ideal or “complete” unless it is as readily accepted.

It’s also important to recognize there will always be a great number of people that fall as exceptions to the above, and it is important to accept those as well. It is, in fact, the failure to do so that results in the toxic extreme.
gakINGKONG On about 4 hours ago




Misawa, Japan
#3New Post! Jan 28, 2019 @ 22:48:09
@Cpat92 Said

Have you heard of the phrase, Toxic Masculinity? What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's something that is real, or something created to further separate individuals?

From what I go in an article, Toxic Masculinity is basically the 'incorrect' things we were taught about being a man. It also explains what happens when certain men behave a certain way (obviously in a negative way) when being a man goes wrong. Someone asked on twitter, in which Terry Crews gave an interesting response while utilizing his father as an example. In a way, I can see where it can quite easily be taken the wrong way and create much more controversy between individuals. Especially between men and women. While I agree that some teachings are wrong and should be removed, I don't think it should have been labeled because now individuals can be labeled as one with toxic masculinity, when it could be something much deeper. Some findings they used as examples, may be inaccurate now as it was in the past. I didn't see much on toxic femininity, but from what they told in the article (though brief) it the opposite and make it seem like those with toxic femininity is suffering while men with toxic masculinity are not and their victims are. It also says the victims are women and children (basically wife and kids), but I believe it is not completely true, because one who tends to be violent will not only attack minors and their spouses.

That's all I have on it thus far. I plan on looking more into it and actually may ask some of my professors who may know. What is your opinion on it? I would like your take on this as well.


Toxic Masculinity is a pop-weasel phrase

Flush it and keep marching without a thought dun sun.

chaski On about 6 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#4New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 02:23:26
They used to call it being a male chauvinist pig.

It meant that the male(s) in question were....

> Males... i.e. men.

> Believed that men are/were massively superiority to women, and treated women like slaves, handmaidens, dumb asses that should stay in the kitchen... or are/were objects for little more than sex.

> And were pretty much domineering jackasses.

> etc.

But that term is no longer good enough, so they came up with another term: 'Toxic Masculinity'.

It isn't anything new.... the idea has been around for a long time.
offbeat On March 15, 2019




london, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 09:14:25
@Cpat92 Said

Have you heard of the phrase, Toxic Masculinity? What are your thoughts on it? Do you think it's something that is real, or something created to further separate individuals?

From what I go in an article, Toxic Masculinity is basically the 'incorrect' things we were taught about being a man. It also explains what happens when certain men behave a certain way (obviously in a negative way) when being a man goes wrong. Someone asked on twitter, in which Terry Crews gave an interesting response while utilizing his father as an example. In a way, I can see where it can quite easily be taken the wrong way and create much more controversy between individuals. Especially between men and women. While I agree that some teachings are wrong and should be removed, I don't think it should have been labeled because now individuals can be labeled as one with toxic masculinity, when it could be something much deeper. Some findings they used as examples, may be inaccurate now as it was in the past. I didn't see much on toxic femininity, but from what they told in the article (though brief) it the opposite and make it seem like those with toxic femininity is suffering while men with toxic masculinity are not and their victims are. It also says the victims are women and children (basically wife and kids), but I believe it is not completely true, because one who tends to be violent will not only attack minors and their spouses.

That's all I have on it thus far. I plan on looking more into it and actually may ask some of my professors who may know. What is your opinion on it? I would like your take on this as well.



before you ask your professors you need to establish if they are broad minded or are they the type that sees everything from a left wing perspective. if the latter then they will gladly tell you that masculinity is toxic. in my opinion the term toxic masculinity has been invented by the radical 'feminists' to undermine the male gender.it is one of the latest tactics being used to weaken the male character. they don't stop at calling violent men toxic, they list natural male traits as toxic. such as stoicism and competitiveness. they are trying to teach boys to be more emotional and caring whilst at the same time telling girls to be strong. the radicals are going for role reversal in my opinion. we must not go along with their cow s**t!
offbeat On March 15, 2019




london, United Kingdom
#6New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 09:21:02
@Leon Said

If you go to the extreme either way, it can have negative effects.

Masculinity, and recognizing the inherent differences between males an females is NOT a negative thing, and, in fact, can be a good thing.

It’s when it is taken to the extreme to the point where it is believed men are not allowed to have emotional feelings, are meant to be sexually aggressive or dominant over their wives, etc, that it is a problem (or, if you will, defined as “toxic”.)

Or when the reaction to the above is taken to the other extreme, to the point men and women are supposed to have the same exact emotional landscape on everything, sexual urges, interests (including professional), bonds with children, etc, when, in fact, they do not, then we create huge problems as a society as well.

The ideal would be to get rid of the stereotypes and expectations and let people be and accept them for who they are.

Yes, when we do so, men and women will end up different than each other in terms of emotions and reactions to things, yes, men and women will have different types and levels of sexual desires and needs, yes, men and women will each gravitate towards certain professions more so than the other will, and yes, men and women will have different types of bonds and relationships with their children.

But these differences between the sexes and the way they play out should be accepted, admired, and constructively built upon rather than looked down upon or erased. Such differences are as inherent by nature as anatomy itself and I would even venture to say that a society isn’t ideal or “complete” unless it is as readily accepted.

It’s also important to recognize there will always be a great number of people that fall as exceptions to the above, and it is important to accept those as well. It is, in fact, the failure to do so that results in the toxic extreme.



one of the most intelligent responses to this new sexist term. but where you've gone wrong is to use reasonable, intelligent argument. because the ones who invented toxic masculinity would not agree with your reasonable summing up of the differences between men and women. they are convinced that the genders are the same but that society makes them different by the stereotypical way we raise them. hopefully they will learn that they are wrong when in 10 years time we still have a noticeable difference between men and women.
shadowen On about 13 hours ago




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#7New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 14:28:26
@offbeat Said

...hopefully they will learn that they are wrong when in 10 years time we still have a noticeable difference between men and women.


They will never accept that they are wrong as their position is not based on science or robustly tested 'facts' but rather on emotion and the single minded desire to propagate the feminist narrative that insists that women can only ever be victims and men can only ever be perpetrators. A narrative that insists that whilst women have problems men cause problems.

It was actually quite interesting watching the news a couple of days ago. On it they had a short piece where feminists were waffling on about so called 'toxic masculinity'. During the same news hour there was a case of three women attacking and robbing a young bloke at knife point, a gang of women attacking a teenage girl near a park, and two groups of teenage girls fighting one another in Maccas (whilst a couple of blokes tried to break up the donnybrook).

The point is that so called 'toxic masculinity' is BS just as 'toxic femininity' is BS. Some people are simply arseholes. Some of these pricks are male, and some of them are female...

PS - in the scientific world, wide spread consensus concerning the differences btw men and women was reached some 30 years ago in regards to the nature v nurture debate. Science accepts that there are noticeable differences btw the sexes based on biology. And yet the more the evidence mounted the more feminists insisted that differences were due to an individuals environment. At the same time they confused, and continue to confuse, an artificially (and selectively) constructed equal outcome with equality. They seem incapable of accepting that differences btw the sexes is not only inevitable but also in no way a bad thing.
Cpat92 On about 3 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#8New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 22:49:41
So, apparently the American Psychological Association has officially recognized Toxic Masculinity as a thing. I don't know if that was the wisest decision. So being competitive is one trait of toxic masculinity. That is considered harmful when being a leader is good. Don't they know that in multiple cases, being a leader, there will be competition. Many CEOs are leaders. Whether they are male, or female and they had to face competition in order to get to where they were.
gakINGKONG On about 4 hours ago




Misawa, Japan
#9New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 23:15:23
@Cpat92 Said

So, apparently the American Psychological Association has officially recognized Toxic Masculinity as a thing. I don't know if that was the wisest decision. So being competitive is one trait of toxic masculinity. That is considered harmful when being a leader is good. Don't they know that in multiple cases, being a leader, there will be competition. Many CEOs are leaders. Whether they are male, or female and they had to face competition in order to get to where they were.



Welcome to the deconstruction of the west.

Up is down. Good is bad. Zero equals one.
Cpat92 On about 3 hours ago
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#10New Post! Jan 29, 2019 @ 23:27:10
APA Guidelines "Toxic Masculinity"

If anyone is curious to what they are saying. Here it is.
Jennifer1984 On April 17, 2019
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Jan 30, 2019 @ 06:16:02
@Leon Said

If you go to the extreme either way, it can have negative effects.

Masculinity, and recognizing the inherent differences between males an females is NOT a negative thing, and, in fact, can be a good thing.

It’s when it is taken to the extreme to the point where it is believed men are not allowed to have emotional feelings, are meant to be sexually aggressive or dominant over their wives, etc, that it is a problem (or, if you will, defined as “toxic”.)

Or when the reaction to the above is taken to the other extreme, to the point men and women are supposed to have the same exact emotional landscape on everything, sexual urges, interests (including professional), bonds with children, etc, when, in fact, they do not, then we create huge problems as a society as well.

The ideal would be to get rid of the stereotypes and expectations and let people be and accept them for who they are.

Yes, when we do so, men and women will end up different than each other in terms of emotions and reactions to things, yes, men and women will have different types and levels of sexual desires and needs, yes, men and women will each gravitate towards certain professions more so than the other will, and yes, men and women will have different types of bonds and relationships with their children.

But these differences between the sexes and the way they play out should be accepted, admired, and constructively built upon rather than looked down upon or erased. Such differences are as inherent by nature as anatomy itself and I would even venture to say that a society isn’t ideal or “complete” unless it is as readily accepted.

It’s also important to recognize there will always be a great number of people that fall as exceptions to the above, and it is important to accept those as well. It is, in fact, the failure to do so that results in the toxic extreme.



re: my BIB

I agree. To an extent.

Vive la difference is perfectly acceptable provided those differences don't morph into discrimination, oppression and abuse then we can all live together, content in our own skins and enjoying the benefits that both bring to our lives. But it has to be said that men are often highly selective in how women - and our capabilities - are viewed by them.

For example: It is true that females are biologically less physically powerful than men. That's a given. But that power has been abused for centuries to oppress women. Men have celebrated their position of power and are loathe to give it up.

Women were denied the vote in Britain throughout the 19th century largely on the grounds that they were "weaker" than men and unable to carry out the hard physical labour that men do. That argument, so it went, meant that as women were inferior to men they shouldn't have the same voting rights.

And then along came World War I. The men marched off to the trenches and women in their hundreds of thousands poured into the munitions factories to do the.... er.... hard physical labour that they'd been told for generations was beyond their fragile capabilities.

This is toxic masculinity writ large. Tell women that they are inferior and then when it suits, make them do the things you've hitherto said was beyond them.

TM is a mindset. It's an attitude. It is the belief that women are inferior and are therefore subject to male rule in whatever form suits the male purpose at any given time.

It doesn't apply only to the workplace or in civil rights. In the home... especially in the bedroom, where a wife may be expected to submit to being treated as a whore.... on the sports field, in government.... at every level of society, TM demands that the woman be considered inferior for no other reason than her gender.

Toxic Masculinity, by virtue of it's very name, is a male attitude. Women aren't responsible for it. We just suffer from it. But just because it exists doesn't mean we have to submit to it. And increasingly, we don't.

This is resented by men. Women who stand up for themselves are labelled "Feminazis".... "b****es"..... they're even labelled as lesbians when they're not. The word is used as a pejorative for a woman who demands to be treated like a human being.... which also brings homophobia into the TM landscape, (although I accept that some women can use that kind of damning slur against other women in that regard too).

Yes, we can celebrate those differences that exist between us where they lead to a harmonious and mutually beneficial relationship. But we shouldn't be oppressed by them.
Jennifer1984 On April 17, 2019
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#12New Post! Jan 30, 2019 @ 06:18:31
@shadowen Said

They will never accept that they are wrong as their position is not based on science or robustly tested 'facts' but rather on emotion and the single minded desire to propagate the feminist narrative that insists that women can only ever be victims and men can only ever be perpetrators. A narrative that insists that whilst women have problems men cause problems.

It was actually quite interesting watching the news a couple of days ago. On it they had a short piece where feminists were waffling on about so called 'toxic masculinity'. During the same news hour there was a case of three women attacking and robbing a young bloke at knife point, a gang of women attacking a teenage girl near a park, and two groups of teenage girls fighting one another in Maccas (whilst a couple of blokes tried to break up the donnybrook).

The point is that so called 'toxic masculinity' is BS just as 'toxic femininity' is BS. Some people are simply arseholes. Some of these pricks are male, and some of them are female...

PS - in the scientific world, wide spread consensus concerning the differences btw men and women was reached some 30 years ago in regards to the nature v nurture debate. Science accepts that there are noticeable differences btw the sexes based on biology. And yet the more the evidence mounted the more feminists insisted that differences were due to an individuals environment. At the same time they confused, and continue to confuse, an artificially (and selectively) constructed equal outcome with equality. They seem incapable of accepting that differences btw the sexes is not only inevitable but also in no way a bad thing.



The "Aussie Male" speaks.

It's all women's fault.
shadowen On about 13 hours ago




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#13New Post! Jan 30, 2019 @ 13:11:18
Eaglebauer On April 17, 2019
FOSSOR SAPIENS

Moderator




Saint Louis, Missouri
#14New Post! Jan 30, 2019 @ 13:33:20
First, just to get this out of the way, I'm not paring down your post to be a jerk...just cutting some of it out to address the points I mean to address...

@Jennifer1984 Said


TM is a mindset. It's an attitude. It is the belief that women are inferior and are therefore subject to male rule in whatever form suits the male purpose at any given time.


I actually agree completely with this statement...THIS is toxic masculinity. It's not "male thought," it's not every time a man disagrees with a woman, it's not men trying to get a promotion at work, it's not men wanting to provide for a family...

It IS men being chauvinistic and taking an attitude toward women that is unhealthy and not supported in any fact. And it's wrong...unfair..indefensible. But I would add the caveat that it's also not nearly as ubiquitous as it once was and that men by and large these days are (correctly) adopting a more egalitarian view along gender lines. Sure, we still have a lot of work to do as men, but I do think we are moving in the right direction and I think that men of my generation and the ones that follow are much more respectful of women as human beings than the generations that we came from.

Quote:

Toxic Masculinity, by virtue of it's very name, is a male attitude. Women aren't responsible for it. We just suffer from it. But just because it exists doesn't mean we have to submit to it. And increasingly, we don't.


That last sentence is key: Increasingly, women don't put up with it and increasingly, the situations where they are expected to are dwindling. Thankfully. It's the good fight that most women (not feminazis...but women who believe in the spirit of old school feminism...equality not inequality on both sides) are fighting....and that men should be fighting along side them.

That is my solid stance on the gender issue: that it should not be men against women or women against men...it ought to be men and women working in concert toward a goal of equality.

Quote:

This is resented by men. Women who stand up for themselves are labelled "Feminazis".... "b****es"..... they're even labelled as lesbians when they're not. The word is used as a pejorative for a woman who demands to be treated like a human being.... which also brings homophobia into the TM landscape, (although I accept that some women can use that kind of damning slur against other women in that regard too).


I'll add another caveat that it's not resented by "Men" with a capital "M." It's resented by chauvinists, who are becoming fewer in number and being outed for the bigotry they promote. And those men who go full ignorance and automatically label women who mention a word about equality as "feminazis" do not represent me as a man and honestly, I don't think ought to represent manhood in general.

Real men care about women as people and respect them. And more and more in modern times, we are overtaking chauvinists both in number and in voice. We fight bigotry on both sides.

Thanks for posting.
Eaglebauer On April 17, 2019
FOSSOR SAPIENS

Moderator




Saint Louis, Missouri
#15New Post! Jan 30, 2019 @ 13:34:10
@Jennifer1984 Said

The "Aussie Male" speaks.

It's all women's fault.



Not sure he's saying that...
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