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What does the Republican Party stand for?

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chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#31New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:25:40
Another side note... since we are talking age and when we studied politics...

I got my degree in International Politics in the late 70's.

We only ever used a “linear political spectrum”... single axis assessment of political theory... as a reference point for some discussions.

All of my professors, and most of my fellow classmates, understood that it was extremely limited and not accurate.

Just saying.
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#32New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:31:01
Either way the ultimate rights of the State over the individual is Communism.

The ultimate right of the Individual over the State is Anarchism. I would think that's fairly obvious.

Placing Fascism on the right is problematic. Fascism was basically used to facilitate a Monarch ( supreme leader, Fuhrer, El Duce or whatever) through the use of a manufactured caste system. The caste system was based on the pre existing social makeup of the nation involved.

In Germany for instance, the "Master Race" was white, germanic peoples. That's because they formed the bulk of the population and were represented in the pre existing power structures; the church, the government, the politicians etc. By mobilizing that power base and making them more cohesive by turning small groups ( like the Jews and Gypsies) into enemies. These enemies were, by sheer virtue of their lesser numbers, easily defeated giving the people a false sense of victory and power of their new leaders. The psychology behind it is interesting.

If the same guys were reincarnated in Brazil they'd make the indigenous people out to be the enemies and proceed the same way. Basically getting everyone hyped up to go tear assing around conquering stuff like a bunch of football coaches.
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#33New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:32:02
the Nazi party is National Socialist German Workers' Party
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#34New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:33:55
I would call Fascism more of a technique to take over a nation and turn it into a monarchy than I would call it a form of government. For all intents and purposes fascism is a dictatorship.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#35New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:34:25
@4d4m Said

the Nazi party is National Socialist German Workers' Party


So what?

North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" and no one is dumb enough to believe North Korea is a democracy.

Similarly, anyone who took the time to study Hitler and the Nazis should be smart enough to know that they were not socialists... and did not like socialism.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#36New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:35:52
@4d4m Said

For all intents and purposes fascism is a dictatorship.


Now that is the most accurate thing you have posted in this thread and maybe in any thread on TFS.
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#37New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:37:31
True, North Korea is a Socialist dictatorship that fools its people into thinking they have the ability to exercise some political will. This is because they can vote for someone chosen by the party to represent them. Of course it's a sham and that was my point earlier.
Leon On June 04, 2021




San Diego, California
#38New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:39:10
If I were to create a linear spectrum, I’d probably put anarchism on one end and totalitarianism (in its many forms) on the other end. It really has less to do with economics than it does with government control. If you add in economics (which is what socialism, by definition, is based on) you can’t really do a linear spectrum.

But what we were taught back in the day (Communism vs Facism) was pretty mainstream and still is. There is a reason why the media still calls Neo-Fascists groups as “far right” and socialists/communists as “far left”.

Had to have come from somewhere right?
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#39New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:39:30
@4d4m Said

Either way the ultimate rights of the State over the individual is Communism.

The ultimate right of the Individual over the State is Anarchism. I would think that's fairly obvious.



The ultimate rights of the State over the individual is Communism is authoritarian rule. Could be an Emperor, a King, a dictator, an oligarchy... etc.... but doesn't have to be communism.
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#40New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:40:28
Socialism takes control of the major forms of production and puts them in the hands of the government. This is exactly what the NAZIs did. Different ministers (like Albert Speers ) handled the affairs of companies, supplying them with slave labor and telling them what to produce.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#41New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:42:47
@4d4m Said

True, North Korea is a Socialist dictatorship that fools its people into thinking they have the ability to exercise some political will. This is because they can vote for someone chosen by the party to represent them.



Incorrect.

North Korea is a dictatorship... that doesn't fool its people at all.

It controls them and represses them.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#42New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:45:09
@4d4m Said

Socialism takes control of the major forms of production and puts them in the hands of the government. This is exactly what the NAZIs did.


No it is not exactly what the Nazis did.

Your study of Nazi Germany is flawed.

You get an "F".

Again... read MEIN KAMPF and then follow up with THE RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH... just as starting points for your self edification.
4d4m On about 13 hours ago




4dforum.org,
#43New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:46:48
@Leon Said

If I were to create a linear spectrum, I’d probably put anarchism on one end and totalitarianism (in its many forms) on the other end. It really has less to do with economics than it does with government control. If you add in economics (which is what socialism, by definition, is based on) you can’t really do a linear spectrum.

But what we were taught back in the day (Communism vs Facism) was pretty mainstream and still is. There is a reason why the media still calls Neo-Fascists groups as “far right” and socialists/communists as “far left”.

Had to have come from somewhere right?


It did have to come from somewhere and I really wonder where. I think telling people fascism is far right has three consequences.

One is that people are stupid. If you tell some right wingers fascism is a right wing ideology, they will become fascists.

Another is people are stupid. Left wingers will separate socialism and fascism in their minds and forget the last 180 years of history.

The last is people are stupid. If a group were to be able to influence the right and the left, create a false conflict, either a socialist state or a fascist state (that would be socialist by virtue of dictatorship) would arise.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#44New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:49:58
@4d4m Said

Socialism takes control of the major forms of production and puts them in the hands of the government. This is exactly what the NAZIs did. Different ministers (like Albert Speers ) handled the affairs of companies, supplying them with slave labor and telling them what to produce.



A little primer for you...

"Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party.

In 1919 a Munich locksmith named Anton Drexler founded the Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (DAP; German Workers’ Party). Political parties were still a relatively new phenomenon in Germany, and the DAP—renamed the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP; National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or Nazi Party) in 1920—was one of several fringe players vying for influence in the early years of the Weimar Republic. It is entirely possible that the Nazis would have remained a regional party, struggling to gain recognition outside Bavaria, had it not been for the efforts of Adolf Hitler. Hitler joined the party shortly after its creation, and by July 1921 he had achieved nearly total control of the Nazi political and paramilitary apparatus.

To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals.

Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies. Otto Strasser soon recognized that the Nazis were neither a party of socialists nor a party of workers, and in 1930 he broke away to form the anti-capitalist Schwarze Front (Black Front). Gregor remained the head of the left wing of the Nazi Party, but the lot for the ideological soul of the party had been cast.

Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.
chaski On about 13 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#45New Post! Dec 13, 2020 @ 05:51:13
@4d4m Said

....a fascist state (that would be socialist by virtue of dictatorship)...



Wrong again.



Where did you get your political science degree, because you are off on almost every point... your school's course of study must be f***ed up if they taught you this nonsense.

At least you give me laughs.

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