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We Must Be The Devil

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rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Apr 29, 2011 @ 10:50:54


Featuring typical circus "training."



rogY
Carolyn2602 On February 14, 2012




Brisbane, Australia
#2New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 04:50:17
@rogy Said



Featuring typical circus "training."



rogY



Wow! Great quote from this video about one thinking they're an "animal lover" because they love their own dogs (or cats etc). I think that's pretty powerful in describing the moral confusion some people seem to accept in differentiating between the animals they do love, and those they eat and exploit in other ways.

In regards to the training of the elephants, which isn't that much different to training of other animals who are so big and powerful, I imagine. It's not rocket science to go to a circus and see elephants standing on a small stool for the pleasure of humans, or lions jumping through burning hoops, or tigers riding on the backs of terrified horses ... etc etc etc and have an idea that these animals do not perform such pathetic acts as part of their natural behaviour. Someone, at some time, makes them do so. In order to make an animal like an elephant do EXACTLY as a human wishes, it's necessary to terrify, beat and abuse that animal, obviously.

I tend to agree, humans as a species may well be regarded as the Devil by other species, which is really sad.
Leon On 19 minutes ago




San Diego, California
#3New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 04:51:32
I'm against zoos for this very reason. At least how they are set up in most places.
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 11:22:41
@Carolyn2602 Said

Wow! Great quote from this video about one thinking they're an "animal lover" because they love their own dogs (or cats etc). I think that's pretty powerful in describing the moral confusion some people seem to accept in differentiating between the animals they do love, and those they eat and exploit in other ways.

In regards to the training of the elephants, which isn't that much different to training of other animals who are so big and powerful, I imagine. It's not rocket science to go to a circus and see elephants standing on a small stool for the pleasure of humans, or lions jumping through burning hoops, or tigers riding on the backs of terrified horses ... etc etc etc and have an idea that these animals do not perform such pathetic acts as part of their natural behaviour. Someone, at some time, makes them do so. In order to make an animal like an elephant do EXACTLY as a human wishes, it's necessary to terrify, beat and abuse that animal, obviously.

I tend to agree, humans as a species may well be regarded as the Devil by other species, which is really sad.



I agree Carolyn.

Years ago I came across a book written by a circus tiger trainer. He said that the very first thing one must do when one meets a "new" tiger is attack them to establish who's boss.

They would place a noose around tigers' necks and, if they dared to fight back, they would be hauled into the air and strangled for a while until their spirit was broken. The same idea as in waterboarding I guess.

The real issue is what prevent the public thinking about such things when they trot off to the animal circus. Then again, how much thinking takes place when one lifts a piece of animal flesh off the supermarket shelf?


rogY
maximillion On December 13, 2016




, Minnesota
#5New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 11:54:12
i don't mind zoo's at all i would never get to see things like scorpions lizards tigers etc in the wild. as long as they have plenty of space are well looked after but the gorilla i saw at the London zoo just looked well depressed
plebian_angel On April 25, 2012
Intergalactic hussy





a great future,
#6New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 11:56:01
I really don't like the ideas of zoos. I do like seeing the animals, and I know some animals would be extinct without zoos, but it is a double edged sword. Animals are not meant to be locked up. But then again we could say the same about pets I guess.
plebian_angel On April 25, 2012
Intergalactic hussy





a great future,
#7New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 11:56:39
Wanted to add: Don't get me started on circuses. I think animals should not be allowed to be part of them.
Electric_Banana On October 11, 2019




, New Zealand
#8New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 12:12:25
Can't they kill these animals faster?

why do they spend eight minutes beating a pig to death with a stick? I thought they just dropped a guillotine on it.

I think we were intended to eat fruits and vegetables only. I mean bananas come with their own wrappers to keep them clean.

But, after years and years of eating animal flesh, I tend to think some people (not all) may have evolved carnivore and could actually get sick if they go without the nutrients of animal flesh.

So my thing is, it would easier to kill these animals faster than what they're doing to to them.

And that redneck with the elephant just had "I voted for Bush" written all over him.
7ravis On May 10, 2011




Minneapolis, Minnesota
#9New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 14:22:27
I'm familiar with the literature on nutrition, and I'm not aware of anyone who cannot meet their dietary needs from plants.
foosyerdoos On March 10, 2015




Aberdeen, United Kingdom
#10New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 15:06:32
@7ravis Said

I'm familiar with the literature on nutrition, and I'm not aware of anyone who cannot meet their dietary needs from plants.







If you don't mind me saying that's just not true. B12 isn't found in plants and is essential for good health. You must be taking supplements, fortified foods or have incredibly poor hygiene standards to get enough of this rather important dietary inconvenience.
7ravis On May 10, 2011




Minneapolis, Minnesota
#11New Post! Apr 30, 2011 @ 15:47:25
@foosyerdoos Said

If you don't mind me saying that's just not true. B12 isn't found in plants and is essential for good health. You must be taking supplements, fortified foods or have incredibly poor hygiene standards to get enough of this rather important dietary inconvenience.


Ha! You got me, it's my incredibly poor hygiene standards that keep me going.

Jokes aside, you're right that B12 is not reliably found in plants, and you're right that vegans often get their B12 from supplements and fortified foods. However, the B12 that is used in supplements and fortified foods is vegan because, as far as I know, bacteria produces the B12 used industrially. Some strains of yeast also produce B12. In other words, vegan sources of B12 are easy to find.

Also, I'll take a shower, so no need to hit me below the belt again.
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#12New Post! May 01, 2011 @ 18:51:07
@7ravis Said

Ha! You got me, it's my incredibly poor hygiene standards that keep me going.

Jokes aside, you're right that B12 is not reliably found in plants, and you're right that vegans often get their B12 from supplements and fortified foods. However, the B12 that is used in supplements and fortified foods is vegan because, as far as I know, bacteria produces the B12 used industrially. Some strains of yeast also produce B12. In other words, vegan sources of B12 are easy to find.

Also, I'll take a shower, so no need to hit me below the belt again.



On the B12 issue: https://veganireland.org/the-b12-issue.php

There is a lot of competing claims-making about B12. Personally I have lived vegan since 1979 and only recently began to take supplements of any type. A recent blood test suggested that all my levels on everything were better than average scores.

Having said that, of course, every person is an individual with different capacities and needs.


rogY
foosyerdoos On March 10, 2015




Aberdeen, United Kingdom
#13New Post! May 01, 2011 @ 19:29:07
@rogy Said

On the B12 issue: https://veganireland.org/the-b12-issue.php

There is a lot of competing claims-making about B12. Personally I have lived vegan since 1979 and only recently began to take supplements of any type. A recent blood test suggested that all my levels on everything were better than average scores.

Having said that, of course, every person is an individual with different capacities and needs.


rogY






Every vegan site I have looked at recommends (quite rightly) B12 supplements be taken.
Which begs the question. How natural can a diet be if supplements have to be taken?
Carolyn2602 On February 14, 2012




Brisbane, Australia
#14New Post! May 01, 2011 @ 21:55:06
@Electric_Banana Said

Can't they kill these animals faster?


So my thing is, it would easier to kill these animals faster than what they're doing to to them.

And that redneck with the elephant just had "I voted for Bush" written all over him.



I think the industry standard suggests that pigs should be slaughtered humanely, and many slaughterhouses would say they follow all industry standards in doing so. I find it helpful to liken this to the standards we may hold Politicians and others to. Industry standards would also require politicians to be honest, keep their promises and work for those who elect them. It doesn't always happen that way though, as we all know.

I think that for as long as other animals are commodified and considered to be alive for human gratification, they'll also be abused and treated as mere property.
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#15New Post! May 02, 2011 @ 07:58:47
@foosyerdoos Said

Every vegan site I have looked at recommends (quite rightly) B12 supplements be taken.
Which begs the question. How natural can a diet be if supplements have to be taken?



Is that so important anyway? Our ancestors probably got adequate B12 from the fact that their lives were not as hygeinic as modern lives are, and on top of that they likely scavenged flesh from the discarded kills of carnivores and found slugs and so on.

There is a great amount of what we do that could well be called "unnatural."


rogY
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