The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Politics

Voting for LIves that Matter?

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Electric_Banana On June 28, 2020




, New Zealand
#1New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 18:00:45
The Conservative party want tougher laws against and more people from low-economic areas incarcerated easier with a tax focus on building a larger police force and military.
Conservs = Make pot illegal so that we can cull the Mexicans

The Liberal party try to introduce more programs to aid the impoverished and rehabilitate criminals.
Liberals = Make pot legal so that we can get some good men out of our prison system and back into society.

I suspect, that for many years now, there's still a large number of people who are not bothering to vote......
dookie On about 2 hours ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#2New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 19:27:01
Well, ALL lives matter. But such a slogan has been around now in all the major Faiths for 1000's of years it's basically fallen upon deaf ears for one reason or another.

I've given up double guessing what exactly any political party stands for, apart from themselves and maintaining the current power structures (which is where the money is) Are there any true idealists left as part of their systems, any who actually truly think of themselves, and act, as "servants of the people"?

Look at Donald Trump in the USA and Donald Trump Lite (Boris Johnson)in the UK. If they are products of the system then the system is broken. There is Jacinda Ardern in NZ, and apparently a few of a younger generation in Finland (so I have heard, Google it) who offer a little hope.

Someone once said that we get the leaders we deserve, which could offer a strange consolation. Not sure if that is true though - maybe requires a thread?

One doesn't need to suspect that there are a large number of people not bothering to vote. A quick glance at voter turnout confirms this. My own thought is that most non voters are the ones most in need of some sort of "leg up", which in a way is tragic.

After the franchise being enlarged and rolled out for the past 200 years or so, the tide seems to be turning, with certain of the "powers that be" beginning to advocate "identity cards" and suchlike before being able to register/cast a vote. All in the name of "safe democracy" of course, but I suspect ulterior motives.

Last GE in the UK I opted for The Monster Raving Loony Party. In my constituency a pork sausage with a Blue Rosette would be elected. It's the Blue rosette that turns me off, I quite like sausages. Actually, the MRL guy was quite articulate when given a column in the local newspaper, speaking well of the need for some sort of PR system to replace our FPTP. But why change? When you can win a "Landslide" of an 80 seat majority with just 34% of the total electorate giving you their vote?
bob_the_fisherman On July 02, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#3New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 19:50:55
@dookie Said

Well, ALL lives matter. But such a slogan has been around now in all the major Faiths for 1000's of years it's basically fallen upon deaf ears for one reason or another.

I've given up double guessing what exactly any political party stands for, apart from themselves and maintaining the current power structures (which is where the money is) Are there any true idealists left as part of their systems, any who actually truly think of themselves, and act, as "servants of the people"?

Look at Donald Trump in the USA and Donald Trump Lite (Boris Johnson)in the UK. If they are products of the system then the system is broken. There is Jacinda Ardern in NZ, and apparently a few of a younger generation in Finland (so I have heard, Google it) who offer a little hope.

Someone once said that we get the leaders we deserve, which could offer a strange consolation. Not sure it that is true though - maybe requires a thread?

One doesn't need to suspect that there area large number of people not bothering to vote. A quick glance at voter turnout confirms this. My own thought is that most non voters are the ones most in need of some sort of "leg up", which in a way is tragic.

After the franchise being enlarged and rolled out for the past 200 years or so, the tide seems to be turning, with certain of the "powers that be" beginning to advocate "identity cards" and suchlike before being able to register/cast a vote. All in the name of "safe democracy" of course, but I suspect ulterior motives.

Last GE in the UK I opted for The Monster Raving Loony Party. In my constituency a pork sausage with a Blue Rosette would be elected. It's the Blue rosette that turns me off, I quite like sausages. Actually, the MRL guy was quite articulate when given a column in the local newspaper, speaking well of the need for some sort of PR system to replace our FPTP. But why change? When you can win a "Landslide" of an 80 seat majority with just 34% of the total electorate giving you their vote?


Jacinda Ardern, the free speech crushing anti-western clown is actually worse than we have here in what is slowly becoming AusChinia.
mrmhead On 39 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#4New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 19:52:51
@dookie Said

Well, ALL lives matter. But such a slogan has been around now in all the major Faiths for 1000's of years it's basically fallen upon deaf ears for one reason or another.

I've given up double guessing what exactly any political party stands for, apart from themselves and maintaining the current power structures (which is where the money is) Are there any true idealists left as part of their systems, any who actually truly think of themselves, and act, as "servants of the people"?

Look at Donald Trump in the USA and Donald Trump Lite (Boris Johnson)in the UK. If they are products of the system then the system is broken. There is Jacinda Ardern in NZ, and apparently a few of a younger generation in Finland (so I have heard, Google it) who offer a little hope.

Someone once said that we get the leaders we deserve, which could offer a strange consolation. Not sure it that is true though - maybe requires a thread?

One doesn't need to suspect that there area large number of people not bothering to vote. A quick glance at voter turnout confirms this. My own thought is that most non voters are the ones most in need of some sort of "leg up", which in a way is tragic.

After the franchise being enlarged and rolled out for the past 200 years or so, the tide seems to be turning, with certain of the "powers that be" beginning to advocate "identity cards" and suchlike before being able to register/cast a vote. All in the name of "safe democracy" of course, but I suspect ulterior motives.

Last GE in the UK I opted for The Monster Raving Loony Party. In my constituency a pork sausage with a Blue Rosette would be elected. It's the Blue rosette that turns me off, I quite like sausages. Actually, the MRL guy was quite articulate when given a column in the local newspaper, speaking well of the need for some sort of PR system to replace our FPTP. But why change? When you can win a "Landslide" of an 80 seat majority with just 34% of the total electorate giving you their vote?


Glass half-full, I'd like to think (hope) that there are some that get into politics for the "right" reasons (not just power) to affect change from within for the better. And that's where the local politics matter more than national. There are local winners decided by less than 100 votes, sometimes less than 10 - and occasionally you'll see it comes down to a coin flip.

Let the national games play out and lend your applause, but pay attention to your local / regional races.
dookie On about 2 hours ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 19:56:08
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Jacinda Ardern, the free speech crushing anti-western clown is actually worse than we have here in what is slowly becoming AusChinia.



Forget it Bob, I gave you a wave on another post of mine regarding your apparent need to stoke up an argument. Oh yes......I just want to..........oh yes, me, I'm......
dookie On about 2 hours ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#6New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 19:59:45
@mrmhead Said

Glass half-full, I'd like to think (hope) that there are some that get into politics for the "right" reasons (not just power) to affect change from within for the better. And that's where the local politics matter more than national. There are local winners decided by less than 100 votes, sometimes less than 10 - and occasionally you'll see it comes down to a coin flip.

Let the national games play out and lend your applause, but pay attention to your local / regional races.



Good point, I have said it before that there remain some decent sorts at local level. The tragedy here is that National swings one way or the other often sweep out those of the Party out of favour even though they have been good workers in the local community.
mrmhead On 39 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#7New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 20:05:12
@dookie Said

Good point, I have said it before that there remain some decent sorts at local level. The tragedy here is that National swings one way or the other often sweep out those of the Party out of favour even though they have been good workers in the local community.



I actually like our current (DeWine) and past (Kasich) governors even though <gasp> they are Republicans!!

But I don't see them as part and party of the GOPers (lockstep, lying/blind lemmings)

I really wish Kasich had stepped up as a challenger to trump.
I'd probably take Kasich over Biden.
dookie On about 2 hours ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#8New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 20:19:13
@mrmhead Said

I actually like our current (DeWine) and past (Kasich) governors even though <gasp> they are Republicans!!

But I don't see them as part and party of the GOPers (lockstep, lying/blind lemmings)

I really wish Kasich had stepped up as a challenger to trump.
I'd probably take Kasich over Biden.



Local USA politics is a total unknown to me. But I know from first hand of a local Tory Councillor who worked pretty hard on countless "small time" issues which sorted out various problems people faced. (He had a full time job where I was employed and we would laugh a bit about how he did his council work on the sly.)
bob_the_fisherman On July 02, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#9New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 20:59:07
The problem with democracy is that you do get exactly who the people vote for.

For democracy to function we require a thing we do not have - educated, watchful voters interested in the political process - that does not mean we will always agree. Plenty of people disagree with me for legitimate reasons. But what it would mean is we would not get politicians pandering and whipping up race hate and division.

For example, Pelosi pretends to care about all the black people being slaughtered in Democrat controlled areas, but in practice helps whip up racial hate, and actually cares so deeply about black people she can't even remember George Floyd's name. Meanwhile, the GOP is happy to have the border open to allow people to flood in and take low wage jobs from unskilled Americans with the lie that the American people won't work.

In the UK, Naz Shah liked and retweeted a comment saying that the thousands of little girls abused by Islamic grooming gangs should shut up about it in the name of diversity. She is still in parliament in the UK. That tells us all we need to know about British politics.

In Australia we vote for Chinese bought politicians who have literally sold us out (China buys our farmland, homes, raw minerals etc).

There is no political party in the west that represents the interests of the average person, and there hasn't been for a long time. That is why populist movements are rising up. I actually support it despite the possible danger. If the parties do not represent the people, the people need new parties.

It is just a pity that we, the average people, can not figure out that we have more in common with each other than anyone from any political party has in common with us.

The trade deals that sent jobs overseas were not for our benefit.
The mass immigration, high unemployment, lowering education standards etc., are not for our benefit. The damage they have done is in some cases irreparable.

I think one thing that could fix this problem is that the political class should be forced to live in the community they represent, and not in some lovely little gated section of it, but in the lowest socio-economic area. And their children should have to go to the closest available school or the lowest socio-economic school in the district (I would even consider making it mandatory that people entering politics have children... it is a least something to think about). That might encourage them to fix the problems they have created. And as this COVID1984 virus has made clear, politics does not need to be done in capitals, it can be done anywhere. Let them do it from the area they represent, in the area where the most harm has been done.
mrmhead On 39 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#10New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 21:13:02
@bob_the_fisherman Said

The problem with democracy is that you do get exactly who the people vote for.


The other half of that is Everyone should respect the result of the outcome.

The GOPers ( I forget which old, white guy said it, by now) declared that their job was to make sure that the Obama administration failed!

IF you remember during one of the "Financial Cliffs" of the Bush administration, it was the DEMS that gave in and let the budget pass to keep the gov't moving.


Note: Yes, I am implying to invoke the "They Did It Too" argument that the GOPer lemmings are so happy to drag out.
bob_the_fisherman On July 02, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#11New Post! Jun 28, 2020 @ 22:39:33
@mrmhead Said

The other half of that is Everyone should respect the result of the outcome.

The GOPers ( I forget which old, white guy said it, by now) declared that their job was to make sure that the Obama administration failed!

IF you remember during one of the "Financial Cliffs" of the Bush administration, it was the DEMS that gave in and let the budget pass to keep the gov't moving.


Note: Yes, I am implying to invoke the "They Did It Too" argument that the GOPer lemmings are so happy to drag out.


I do not like the GOP. I dislike them less than I dislike the DNC, but that is about the same as saying I would prefer getting brain cancer to testicular cancer. I really, really, really do not want either of them. As I just said to Tiger in the other thread, I can not believe anyone thinks either political party works in their interests. Squabbling over these two parties is the same as squabbling over who is going to ram their fist inside you against your will, but if your side wins you get to apply lubricant that you have to pay for.

It just does not seem like you can win in that scenario.
DiscordTiger On about 16 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#12New Post! Jun 29, 2020 @ 00:01:07
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I do not like the GOP. I dislike them less than I dislike the DNC, but that is about the same as saying I would prefer getting brain cancer to testicular cancer. I really, really, really do not want either of them. As I just said to Tiger in the other thread, I can not believe anyone thinks either political party works in their interests. Squabbling over these two parties is the same as squabbling over who is going to ram their fist inside you against your will, but if your side wins you get to apply lubricant that you have to pay for.

It just does not seem like you can win in that scenario.



Most of us are not trying to win, we are trying to stay alive.

It’s not like we can change the system if we are dead either.
For now it is what it is with no magic wand to fix it.
dookie On about 2 hours ago
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#13New Post! Jun 29, 2020 @ 10:21:05
Post inspired by.......



@DiscordTiger Said

Most of us are not trying to win, we are trying to stay alive.




Maybe, all in all, the best option would be living in a Dictatorship. Basically you get what you are given, without the illusion of having got who - or what - you voted for, or thought you were voting for. Even any illusion of freedom at all. Obviously a benevolent dictatorship would be nice, but I think that is what is called an oxymoron, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, just so long as you kept yourself under the radar of the local Thought Police and thus escape incarceration, you could then give yourself over to seeking true freedom of mind. (Even if incarcerated you could perhaps just stare at the walls for a nine year stretch, something which Bodhidharma found beneficial when he came from the West)

In such a system one could avoid the media altogether and thus not even run the risk of being fooled by any of it, or of thinking it meant anything at all. You could thankfully leave "sides" behind. Even bias.

Paradise.

(Some would say that the object of the exercise is, having gained freedom of mind, to re-enter the market place riding upon the bull. But I must not get ahead of myself)
gakINGKONG On about 4 hours ago




, Florida
#14New Post! Jun 29, 2020 @ 12:41:37
If or when the US goes to single-pay medical system, there will be death panels.

With a shortage of doctors, decisions will be made on who gets the life-saving treatment and who doesn't.

Yes we always vote someone off the island.


"Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated."--God
DiscordTiger On about 16 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#15New Post! Jun 29, 2020 @ 18:02:36
@dookie Said

Post inspired by.......






Maybe, all in all, the best option would be living in a Dictatorship. Basically you get what you are given, without the illusion of having got who - or what - you voted for, or thought you were voting for. Even any illusion of freedom at all. Obviously a benevolent dictatorship would be nice, but I think that is what is called an oxymoron, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, just so long as you kept yourself under the radar of the local Thought Police and thus escape incarceration, you could then give yourself over to seeking true freedom of mind. (Even if incarcerated you could perhaps just stare at the walls for a nine year stretch, something which Bodhidharma found beneficial when he came from the West)

In such a system one could avoid the media altogether and thus not even run the risk of being fooled by any of it, or of thinking it meant anything at all. You could thankfully leave "sides" behind. Even bias.

Paradise.

(Some would say that the object of the exercise is, having gained freedom of mind, to re-enter the market place riding upon the bull. But I must not get ahead of myself)


I was sort of thinking Maslow, Let us get past securing housing and food and basic needs. ( access to job, healthcare, and food) and then we can start working on the other stuff.

We legit have a party that made it ok to deny someone medical treatment based on their sexuality.
Or if a pharmacy has a moral issue with a drug, they no longer have to dispense it - same applies for types of treatment.

In some states you can be evicted from your home if you’re landlord finds out your gay and things that’s “against god”.

Black men and women have been murdered by police, and nothing happens.

So many real issues have significant interests, on both sides some think abortion is a deal breaker. Either way. There is very little meeting in the middle.

Not so much that we are being passive, but that there is such a discrepancy in how many are treated by the two parties, it’s not really a choice in an either or system. And our elections are for the most part, either/or winner take all. There is very little room for a third party to be successful.
Yes there are more than two parties, there are dozens of other parties. Only a small handful even have enough name recognition to be a trivia question, much less a significant challenge on the ballot.


I’m pretty obviously democrat, simply because I won’t vote for a party literally agreeing it’s ok if me and my family die. That doesn’t make the dnc perfect, it’s not. I’m just being pragmatic. Being annoyed at something Biden did 20 years ago and has said differently now is not the same as something trump did yesterday, and is tweeting about today. Biden wasn’t my first choice, but baby with bath water situation. Not everyone has the same opinion as me. Some insist on voting third party, no matter their chances, that’s fine too. Just not where I’m at. Took too many poli sci courses over the years to be ok with doing that myself.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Politics Forum - Some Rudeness Allowed

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Politics
Mon Sep 26, 2011 @ 21:09
38 3373
New posts   News & Current Events
Thu Apr 28, 2011 @ 00:02
5 1050
New posts   Jokes & Humor
Tue Feb 01, 2011 @ 02:57
5 2389
New posts   Politics
Tue Nov 02, 2010 @ 23:06
32 1362
New posts   US Elections
Mon Oct 27, 2008 @ 23:07
65 2858