Two Million March In London For Another Vote

Delta62

Natural asshole

manchester, United Kingdom

#61

Apr 11, 2019 @ 18:55:48

Just an fyi she doesn't speak for all of us.

1

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#62

Apr 11, 2019 @ 18:56:01

@Jennifer1984 Said

That's it. You sleep it off. Better your snoring than anything else that emanates from you.

Meanwhile, back in the real world

Brexit delayed until 31 October

And in terms of it ever happening at all, news is leaking out that the Civil Service are being told to “wind down” no Deal planning in next few weeks as UK “cannot” now leave with no Deal.

NEW: M20 lorry park - £15m Operation Brock, which - if you believe anything Theresa May has to say - "had nothing to do with Brexit" despite standing for “Brexit Operations Across Kent” has been stood down and is being dismantled now that Government is “winding down” No Deal preps.

Winding down preps or the first steps in winding the whole thing down in advance of 31 October....?

This could be one to watch.

0

Edited: April 11, 2019 @ 18:58

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#63

Apr 11, 2019 @ 23:56:40

@Jennifer1984 Said

Meanwhile, back in the real world

Brexit delayed until 31 October

And in terms of it ever happening at all, news is leaking out that the Civil Service are being told to “wind down” no Deal planning in next few weeks as UK “cannot” now leave with no Deal.

NEW: M20 lorry park - £15m Operation Brock, which - if you believe anything Theresa May has to say - "had nothing to do with Brexit" despite standing for “Brexit Operations Across Kent” has been stood down and is being dismantled now that Government is “winding down” No Deal preps.

Winding down preps or the first steps in winding the whole thing down in advance of 31 October....?

This could be one to watch.

I'm not sure what's worse; watching democracy die, or watching the people applaud as it happens.

0

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#64

Apr 12, 2019 @ 00:20:03

@Jennifer1984 Said

At last......... somebody who is treating the discussion in a serious manner and not merely using it as an excuse to bash the British.

At no point in our discussion have I attacked the UK, nor have I set out to "bash the British" - in fact it's quite the opposite. I have been supporting the will of 17,410,742 people in the UK who voted "No" when asked if they wanted to remain in the EU.

As I have said before, the country I care most about after Australia is the UK, and I 100% do not want the UK to fall.

I am not sure why it is that you believe people opposing you has to be from animus, but it's something in you that you might want to reflect on. I hope it's only an online thing.

0

Edited: April 12, 2019 @ 00:21

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#65

Apr 12, 2019 @ 00:21:57

@Delta62 Said

Just an fyi she doesn't speak for all of us.

If democracy can be believed most Brits disagree with her.

0

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#66

Apr 12, 2019 @ 04:38:33

Gotta love this

This is a snippet from the later-to-become Secretary for Exiting the EU, David Davis in his February 2016 speech where he laid out how important Grat Britain is to the EU and that they would be banging down our door for a Free Trade Deal (complete with Dad's Army style infographic of course... for Brexiters is all about the war.... always the war....):-

Needless to say, it hasn't happened. Europeans have put the future of the Union ahead of such concerns.

I'm posting this to highlight a very important point. The figures in the graphic are reasonably accurate, and if the Europeans are prepared to risk losing that, does it not highlight just how important the Union is to them..?

0

Edited: April 12, 2019 @ 04:40

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#67

Apr 12, 2019 @ 04:56:59

@bob_the_fisherman Said

I'm not sure what's worse; watching democracy die, or watching the people applaud as it happens.

We said all along that Brexit was impossible to achieve.... at least, the Brexit that was promised.

They promised us rainbows and unicorns, Bob. Quotes like "We will achieve the easiest trade deal in history." "They need us more than we need them (see my post and graphic above).

The referendum was bent, Bob. The Leave campaign was built on lies and promises they knew couldn't be delivered, and they wouldn't have delivered them even if they could.

The big red bus lie was the most glaringly obvious. "£350 million a week for the NHS", which was meant to mean that the British contribution to the EU, when no longer paid, would be channelled into the health service. But that was a distortion. True, Britain pays that amount to the EU but a large chunk of that is knocked off as a rebate and around £100 million of that is channelled back to the country in various forms such as farming and fishing subsidies.

So, £350 million a week was an entirely unsustainable claim. And boy did we holler that long and loud, but it gained traction because it was supported by the Brexit Press (The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph) and was relentlessly promoted on Facebook. That one lie alone was responsible for God knows how many leave votes.

And then there was the criminality. Aaron Banks, a businessman who directed secret funding to the leave campaign.... entirely against British Electoral law.... gave many millions of pounds to the campaign. He has been found guilty of some minor offences which he has already been fined for, but the Serious Crime Agency are conducting an investigation into more serious offences. Developments are awaited on that.

And let's not forget, that in Britain, referenda are not legally binding. They are advisory. There was no legal obligation upon the government to actually act on the referendum. Indeed, Nigel Farage said before the vote that if Remain won he would consider it "Unfinished business" and campaign for another vote on the issue. Simply put, if he had lost, he would be doing now exactly what Remain are doing.

But the advisory nature of referenda in Britain brings me to my next point.

The Electoral Commission looking into the offences already proven said that if the referendum had been legally binding, the vote would have been declared null and void because of the criminal activities surrounding the leave campaign.

The only reason it's stood is because is has no legal authority. But if it has no legal authority, then there is no obligation to see it through.

Your thoughts on this...?

0

Edited: April 12, 2019 @ 04:57

shadowen

Bunyip Bend, Australia

#68

Apr 12, 2019 @ 13:59:09

@Jennifer1984 Said

Better your snoring than anything else that emanates from you.

2 million marchers...2 million marchers

0

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#69

Apr 12, 2019 @ 16:49:49

@bob_the_fisherman Said

If democracy can be believed most Brits disagree with her.

It is so frustrating that the "respecting" the result nonsense is the only thing that is stopping our parliament from sorting out this whole sorry mess of a situation,

The calling of the referendum in the first place was an absolute abuse of the referendum system. It was used as a party political tool by Cameron to appease the Eurosceptical members of his own party and to neutralize the threat of UKIP.

That should not happen in a representative democracy as it is an illegitimate attempt to circumvent normal parliamentary procedures for a secondary party political end.

A mandated, legally binding withdrawal referendum would have required much tighter controls and checks. The government would have been required to set out a detailed plan in advance, and detailed procedure for the execution of the result. The 2016 referendum did not meet even the basic requirements required and has resulted in a government having to define what the result meant after the event and negotiate for something it did not support.

There should not be any respect for such a disingenuous , political con trick.

0

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#71

Apr 13, 2019 @ 19:34:33

@Jennifer1984 Said

It is so frustrating that the "respecting" the result nonsense is the only thing that is stopping our parliament from sorting out this whole sorry mess of a situation,

The calling of the referendum in the first place was an absolute abuse of the referendum system. It was used as a party political tool by Cameron to appease the Eurosceptical members of his own party and to neutralize the threat of UKIP.

So in other words it was about the same as the deceptive referendum that duped people into unwittingly becoming members of an EU they never voted to be part of in the first place?

So you agree that the UK should not be in the EU.

0

Edited: April 13, 2019 @ 19:37

bob_the_fisherman

Anatidaephobic

, Angola

#72

Apr 13, 2019 @ 19:52:41

@Jennifer1984 Said

We said all along that Brexit was impossible to achieve.... at least, the Brexit that was promised.

They promised us rainbows and unicorns, Bob. Quotes like "We will achieve the easiest trade deal in history." "They need us more than we need them (see my post and graphic above).

The referendum was bent, Bob. The Leave campaign was built on lies and promises they knew couldn't be delivered, and they wouldn't have delivered them even if they could.

The big red bus lie was the most glaringly obvious. "£350 million a week for the NHS", which was meant to mean that the British contribution to the EU, when no longer paid, would be channelled into the health service. But that was a distortion. True, Britain pays that amount to the EU but a large chunk of that is knocked off as a rebate and around £100 million of that is channelled back to the country in various forms such as farming and fishing subsidies.

So, £350 million a week was an entirely unsustainable claim. And boy did we holler that long and loud, but it gained traction because it was supported by the Brexit Press (The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express, Telegraph) and was relentlessly promoted on Facebook. That one lie alone was responsible for God knows how many leave votes.

And then there was the criminality. Aaron Banks, a businessman who directed secret funding to the leave campaign.... entirely against British Electoral law.... gave many millions of pounds to the campaign. He has been found guilty of some minor offences which he has already been fined for, but the Serious Crime Agency are conducting an investigation into more serious offences. Developments are awaited on that.

And let's not forget, that in Britain, referenda are not legally binding. They are advisory. There was no legal obligation upon the government to actually act on the referendum. Indeed, Nigel Farage said before the vote that if Remain won he would consider it "Unfinished business" and campaign for another vote on the issue. Simply put, if he had lost, he would be doing now exactly what Remain are doing.

But the advisory nature of referenda in Britain brings me to my next point.

The Electoral Commission looking into the offences already proven said that if the referendum had been legally binding, the vote would have been declared null and void because of the criminal activities surrounding the leave campaign.

The only reason it's stood is because is has no legal authority. But if it has no legal authority, then there is no obligation to see it through.

Your thoughts on this...?

See my comment above, and I will further add, the BBC was and is a shill for the remain, then remoan faction. They are supposed to be impartial but have repeatedly shown that they are partisans and scum of the greatest sort - and here I'm not just speaking of the decades they've covered for all kinds of sordid abuse involving children.

According to your logic of foul play voiding a vote both sides are guilty.

Claiming that a politician lied, therefore the vote is invalid, is a bit like saying water fell from the sky when it rained so the vote should be invalid. It's an absurdity that not even Kafka would write about. The underlying premise is that in other elections the political class do not lie, and that people are so gullible and mentally impoverished they have no choice other than to believe what they're told because thinking is beyond them.

I agree when it comes to general elections; people continue to vote for the establishment parties against their own interests. However, there are multiple factors in that. A yes/no referendum is a little different.

As far as Farage - he is now just a self serving shill who is defacto working against Brexit from what I can tell. If he had integrity, rather than calling Brexit protesters drunk thugs with tattoos on their eyes he would be out there acting on behalf of the British people who want their sovereignty back, and throwing his support behind Tommy Robinson (Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) and UKIP.

0

Edited: April 13, 2019 @ 19:53

shadowen

Bunyip Bend, Australia

#74

Apr 14, 2019 @ 15:58:42

@Jennifer1984 Said

thinly disguised Brit-Bashing

So come on then. How about some examples of Brit bashing? There are plenty of examples in this thread alone of you having a go at Australians and Australia.

@Jennifer1984 Said

by a sexist

Again, how about an example? Again, there are plenty of examples of you attacking me based purely on my gender (and nationality)

@Jennifer1984 Said

poorly informed

Two million voters, only one air raid on Darwin etc etc etc...and I'm the one who is poorly informed!

@Jennifer1984 Said

ill-intended individual who decided to make every issue personal long before I retorted to him.

I assume by this my ill intentions are exposing the rubbish you post like the claim there were two million marchers. I guess exposing such rubbish is seen by you as me making the issue personal. I simply see it as holding you to account.

@Jennifer1984 Said

I treat people in the same way they treat me. Play the game fairly with me and I’ll do the same with you. Take me for some sort of weak, easily bullied female and I’ll stand my ground.

You really love to carry around those chips on your shoulder. If any one was bothered to they can follow this thread from the start and see how you treat people how you are treated.

@Jennifer1984 Said

Brexit is motivated by extremist nationalism.

Seems anyone who doesnt agree with you is an extremist.

@Jennifer1984 Said

violence or intimidation in the pursuit of a political doctrine is, in my opinion morally wrong.

Couldn't agree more. In Australia "violence or intimidation in the pursuit of a political doctrine" is the mainstay of the left. As far as the UK is concerned prominent people on both sides of the debate have received death threats etc . Furthermore, ordinary supporters of both sides have either been threatened with violence or have been the victims of violence, and yet I do not ever recall you acknowledging this simple fact.

@Jennifer1984 Said

By your reasoning, nobody should know anything about the Roman Empire because nobody alive today has experience of resisting the Romans.

Funny that as you are always telling me i don't know anything about what's happening in the UK as I don't live there.

@Jennifer1984 Said

The EU was NOT born out of the First World War.

Where has anyone said that it was?

@Jennifer1984 Said

As for the Australian participation.... it certainly wasn't for love of the "Old Country" which they despised then and still do today.

What an absolute load of BS. Australian men enlisted for a variety of reasons. Just as Australian men had joined up to support the British army in NZ, The Sudan and South Africa, many enlisted as they felt a sense of loyalty and kinship towards the "mother country".

To get some sort of an idea as to how Australians felt (and still feel) about the UK you only have to watch news reels or TV coverage of Royal visits. In 1901 Prince George, Duke of Cornwall and York, opened the new Australian Parliament. He was greeted by huge, enthusiastic crowds wherever he went. To say Australians despised the UK in 1914 (or today) is simply yet another example of you broadcasting your ignorance. In 1901 The Daily Telegraph published the following:

"The Duke is extremely pleasant faced and good natured...He never displays the slightest sign of being bored, and though he has the capacity for preserving a masterly silence, he appears to take a keen interest in everything about him… The Duchess has simply captivated everybody. She is one of those women whose photographs don't do them justice. Mr See, our State Premier, who had a long conversation with her at Government House on Tuesday afternoon, says that she is one of the most charming women in the world"

@Jennifer1984 Said

Those who marched off to war did so because they thought it would be "glorious" and “heroic”... it would be all over by Christmas and an easy victory against Johnny Turk who would run away when the first shot was fired.

Utter BS. Of those who initially enlisted there were many and varied reasons for doing so. These included, but were not limited to:
- a sense of loyalty and duty towards the UK
- didn't want to let their mates down
- a chance to see the UK when few could otherwise afford to travel
- the opportunity for work. In 1914 the unemployment rate in Australia was quite high and many were working for a wage that was at best equal to that being offered by the army
- a sense of adventure and proving themselves
- not wanting to be seen as a coward

By May of 1915 the casualty lists and stories of the horror of war were making there way to Australians. Those who joined up after this time were known as the "fair dinkums". They voluntarily enlisted in their hundreds of thousands as they believed the cause of the UK, France and Belgium to be right and just, and they didnt want to let their mates down.

By the way, those Australians who joined up in the months immediately after war was declared never imagined they would be fighting the Ottomans. Indeed the Ottomans werent even in the war until November. Now it is true that when war first broke out many believed that the fighting would be over by Christmas. This was in part based on the length of wars fought in Europe from the 1860's onward. But those first Australians who signed up did so expecting to fight the Germans, not the Ottomans.

@Jennifer1984 Said

an easy victory against Johnny Turk who would run away when the first shot was fired.

Again, this is simply BS. In the lead up to the ANZAC Day landings soldiers knew the Ottomans would put up a strong fight. Indeed some Australian troops had already fought Johnny Turk prior to April 25. General Hamilton actually planned for a 50% casualty rate among the Australian units who landed on April 25. Very few people (I can't find any) believed that it would be "an easy victory against Johnny Turk who would run away when the first shot was fired."

@Jennifer1984 Said

sticking doggedly to outdated, 19th century tactics which took no account of modern, mechanised warfare.

This displays a complete ignorance of strategy and tactics employed in WW1. The way battles were planned and fought in 1917 for example were, for the most part, noticeably different to 1914. Indeed, one of the reasons why US troops had such little success (relative to their size) in 1918 was because they refused to listen to the costly, and hard won, lessons learnt by French, British and Empire forces.

@Jennifer1984 Said

This is another Brexit lie. Another example of Brexit propaganda.

2 million marchers!

@Jennifer1984 Said

Another Brexit lie.

2 million marchers!

@Jennifer1984 Said

Brexiters are serial liars.

2 million marchers!

@Jennifer1984 Said

naïve in that you swallow right wing propaganda very easily.

2 million marchers!

@Jennifer1984 Said

Ironically, if Brexit does take Britain (actually the UK as Britain isn't a country) out of the EU, in time we will CERTAINLY want to re-join

It must be great to have the power to know what will happen in the future.

1

Edited: April 14, 2019 @ 16:12

Similar Topics
	Forum	Topic	Last Post	Replies	Views
	Random	Catherine Tate on Deal Or No Deal	Thu Apr 24, 2008 @ 17:18	9	603
	Television	Deal or no deal in my home town	Sun Nov 19, 2006 @ 01:12	11	1125
	Entertainment	Aussie...Deal or No deal... SUCKS!	Mon May 22, 2006 @ 16:40	27	1630
	History	150 years after Civil War, descendants deal with legacy	Thu Jul 14, 2011 @ 05:10	81	8180
	Politics	Jen's Brexit Watch.	Mon Sep 14, 2020 @ 18:18	33	4458

Politics