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Trump, Macron, Brexit and The Death of the Special Relationship

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Jennifer1984 On about 21 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 04:34:25
I read elsewhere yesterday that after The Donald's visit to Paris for Bastille Day that the French are starting to call Emmanuel Macron "The Trump Whisperer".

During his visit Trump was wined and dined to within an inch of his life. They treated him like their Doofus American uncle over for a visit. When the Garde Republicaine rode into view, Trump's eyes nearly popped out of his head. Oh, the Gilt..!! The Glitz..!! The Pomp of it all..!! Napoleon's Tomb, The Jules Verne in the Eiffel Tower which is not only hideously expensive but almost impossible to get a booking in unless you're either the President of France or USA. Preferably both. All these things were laid before Trump to make him feel loved and important.

The payoff was the Orange One saying the'd "think about" his refusal to be a part of the Paris Agreement. Macron must have smiled quietly inside. This was game, set and match. "Chapeau bas" and a "Joli Coup" for France.

Whether Trump changes his mind or not, he's got his buddy Macron and in the process, UK lost whatever influence we had or importance we might have held.

Trump smiled at the press conference and told the American and French people that France was "The US's oldest and most faithful friend" (I suppose "French" Fries are back on the menu, across the pond now, eh..?). He said "The bond between the American and French people is unbreakable." He said "France is beautiful and just fine."

By contrast, his missive to Theresa May was an instruction that if she wants him to grace America's former "oldest and most faithful friend" with a visit she had better make sure that it "runs smooth".

But this isn't a one way street for Trump.

Europe is getting the measure of The Donald. While UK spends vast amounts of money on Liam Fox's various excursions across the pond to negotiate - with all the legal authority of mafia families carving up who is going to own which judges and politicians - trade deals that will seriously disadvantage UK, we are little by little being sent to the back of the queue that Obama threatened, and the Leave campaign told the British public was "scaremongering".

Churchill - who worked night and day to forge the Special Relationship to bring onside a country that vowed never to get involved in Europe again after joining what is known over there as The 1917-18 war - must be spinning in his shroud.

France is not gun running as it did during the War of Independence. It has a bright, young, very wily President who knows his history and understands the importance of symbols.

Brexit has become an opening and an opportunity to re-fashion the Franco-American Alliance while the UK is being swallowed up by Brexit.

I love France. I adore the country. And I know they have a saying over there. "France is eating Britain's lunch".

The zealots of Brexit.... the headbangers and just plain idiots who allow the Brexit fiasco to continue are diminishing Britain day by day, inch by inch.

I hope France enjoys it's new found friendship with America. That is, until America finds a new "oldest and most faithful friend".
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#2New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 09:33:38
france, does have the right to call bozo, " the trump's whisper ".

we hear usa call bozo, " a horse's a** ".
Jennifer1984 On about 21 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 14:34:49
I think you're calling it right, Twilite.
chaski On about 5 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#4New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 15:40:26
@Jennifer1984 Said

Emmanuel Macron "The Trump Whisperer".


I think Macron is playing Trump.

It seems that Trump has a very self-centered (and possibly fragile) psyche.

It seems to me that he is pretty easily manipulated by praise.

(To all here at TFS...that is an opinion, so please don't bother asking me for "evidence".
It seems obvious to me. If it isn't to you, that is your opinion, which you have a right to).

The real "Trump Whisperer" might be Putin...but that probably should be another thread.
Jennifer1984 On about 21 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 15:57:38
Feel free to expand your argument in this thread, Chaski. I probably wouldn't disagree with you. All that is likely to be different in our opinions is the angle from which we're looking at it.

My personal point of focus is Brexit. Yours may (I suggest) be slanted by the domestic issues in the US over Russian manipulation of the US elections. In either case, your President seems to be easily wooed by manipulative individuals with their own agenda.

I see Macron as a clever and able politician who has quickly learned how to turn a situation to France's advantage. He isn't necessarily looking for big favours from the USA, rather, he wants to insert France into that supposed "special" position which our politicians think we have. If he can drive that wedge home he weakens Britain's negotiating position (which is already extremely fragile anyway) as we cut our own throats with Brexit.

We've been turkeys voting for Christmas. And Macron is sharpening his carving knife at the dinner table.
chaski On about 5 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#6New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 16:33:17
@Jennifer1984 Said

I see Macron as a clever and able politician who has quickly learned how to turn a situation to France's advantage.


I totally agree. In regards to Trump, Macron invites Trump to the French equivalent of our 4th of July. Shows schmoozes Trump with pomp & circumstance (Trump like bobbles and sparkles), shakes his hand without letting go (a Trump thing), and totally wins Trump over. No real need to discuss anything of political importance...just stroke the Donald for a while and win him over.

A Trump whisperer? Maybe.

On the other hand, being fair to Trump, there really is no reason for Trump & the USA to not get along with Macron & France. Maybe Marcon & Trump genuinely like each other.

@Jennifer1984 Said

Feel free to expand your argument in this thread, Chaski. I probably wouldn't disagree with you. All that is likely to be different in our opinions is the angle from which we're looking at it.


Ok keeping is simple...and at the risk of high jacking the thread...

A. In the USA essentially all of our Intelligence Agencies say that Russia tried to tamper with our 2016 Election.
B. A large number of our Republican Congressmen agree (maybe most...or all...?) as do the Democrats (but the Dems are snowflakes not to be considered as rational).
C. Putin has admitted in an interview that Russian hackers may have been involved.
D. Trump's National Security Advisor was fired for being involved with Russia.
E. Trump's Attorney General had to recuse himself from the investigation because of involvement with Russia.
F. Trump's son, son-in-law and Campaign manager met with Russians in an effort to get dirt on Clinton.
G Trump has even accused Clinton of being involved with Russia.

However, when Trump asks Putin if Putin/Russia tried to tamper with the U.S. election, Putin says no.

With no other evidence or information supporting Putin, Trump (apparently) believes Putin.

It really makes no sense, and might make one wonder why Trump believes Putin.

Putin the Trump Whisperer...I'm guilty of growing up in a time when virtually everything Russia did was suspect and I've seen nothing to change that perspective...but maybe I'm wrong...maybe Putin/Russia are honest...
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#7New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 18:45:17
@Jennifer1984 Said

I think you're calling it right, Twilite.


thanks, jennifer!

jennifer, you look at bozo's head. i think his great, great grandfather was the horse's head that was in that bedroom scene in the film in " 1972: the godfather ".
nooneinparticular On November 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#8New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 21:56:18
@Jennifer1984 Said

I read elsewhere yesterday that after The Donald's visit to Paris for Bastille Day that the French are starting to call Emmanuel Macron "The Trump Whisperer".

During his visit Trump was wined and dined to within an inch of his life. They treated him like their Doofus American uncle over for a visit. When the Garde Republicaine rode into view, Trump's eyes nearly popped out of his head. Oh, the Gilt..!! The Glitz..!! The Pomp of it all..!! Napoleon's Tomb, The Jules Verne in the Eiffel Tower which is not only hideously expensive but almost impossible to get a booking in unless you're either the President of France or USA. Preferably both. All these things were laid before Trump to make him feel loved and important.

The payoff was the Orange One saying the'd "think about" his refusal to be a part of the Paris Agreement. Macron must have smiled quietly inside. This was game, set and match. "Chapeau bas" and a "Joli Coup" for France.

Whether Trump changes his mind or not, he's got his buddy Macron and in the process, UK lost whatever influence we had or importance we might have held.

Trump smiled at the press conference and told the American and French people that France was "The US's oldest and most faithful friend" (I suppose "French" Fries are back on the menu, across the pond now, eh..?). He said "The bond between the American and French people is unbreakable." He said "France is beautiful and just fine."

By contrast, his missive to Theresa May was an instruction that if she wants him to grace America's former "oldest and most faithful friend" with a visit she had better make sure that it "runs smooth".

But this isn't a one way street for Trump.

Europe is getting the measure of The Donald. While UK spends vast amounts of money on Liam Fox's various excursions across the pond to negotiate - with all the legal authority of mafia families carving up who is going to own which judges and politicians - trade deals that will seriously disadvantage UK, we are little by little being sent to the back of the queue that Obama threatened, and the Leave campaign told the British public was "scaremongering".

Churchill - who worked night and day to forge the Special Relationship to bring onside a country that vowed never to get involved in Europe again after joining what is known over there as The 1917-18 war - must be spinning in his shroud.

France is not gun running as it did during the War of Independence. It has a bright, young, very wily President who knows his history and understands the importance of symbols.

Brexit has become an opening and an opportunity to re-fashion the Franco-American Alliance while the UK is being swallowed up by Brexit.

I love France. I adore the country. And I know they have a saying over there. "France is eating Britain's lunch".

The zealots of Brexit.... the headbangers and just plain idiots who allow the Brexit fiasco to continue are diminishing Britain day by day, inch by inch.

I hope France enjoys it's new found friendship with America. That is, until America finds a new "oldest and most faithful friend".


I've always thought that while someone can certainly befriend and even trust their neighbors, never bet on them doing anything substantial to help you. It's certainly welcome when they do, but assuming that they will is a dangerous gamble. Politics is a fluid game of liquid alliances held together by self-interest and convenience.
nooneinparticular On November 14, 2019




, Hawaii
#9New Post! Jul 25, 2017 @ 22:07:07
@chaski Said

On the other hand, being fair to Trump, there really is no reason for Trump & the USA to not get along with Macron & France. Maybe Marcon & Trump genuinely like each other.


Maybe, although it can't be denied that even appearing to have a more favorable relationship with the US gives France more power, especially with negotiations over Brexit looming forward. Maybe Trump makes something of that relationship to make it a tit for tat, maybe he simply ends up not using that opportunity to do anything. Regardless, it cannot be denied that Macron, and by extension France, gained something out of that visit, while I'm not so certain Trump and the US can boast the same accomplishment.

Overtures of friendship rarely turn out to be simply overtures of friendship when it comes to international politics. Either Trump can make use of that fact, or he'll squander those opportunities when they present themselves. Only time will tell.
Jennifer1984 On about 21 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#10New Post! Jul 26, 2017 @ 04:24:28
Just as a point in case here, where France is concerned, there is history involved in this.

Back in the 1960's, when Britain first applied to join the (then) Common Market, our application was vetoed by President de Gaulle (France) on the grounds that having UK in the "club" would give the US a back door into European markets... something de Gaulle desperately wanted to avoid.

We had to wait until after de Gaulle died in 1969 before applying again, an application which was accepted in 1973.

Things did transpire as de Gaulle had seen it. Via Britain, the US greatly expanded its market share within the European bloc, but this wasn't overwhelmingly seen as being the dreadful thing that de Gaulle had envisaged. In some ways it was disadvantageous, but in others, it was beneficial. Some you win, some you lose, but over time a not-too-disadvantageous balance was achieved and Europe was reasonably happy. Strangely, if anybody lost, it was Britain which was heavily exploited by the US, gaining very little in return.

Fast forward to now, and America has realised that the British back door is about to be slammed shut in its face, it needs another compliant ally to smooth the way for further American expansion into the growing Euro market place. Macron has seen the positives and pushed France to the front of the queue.

It isn't clear yet what Macron will want. The French economy is growing and they will have market aims of their own, almost certainly outside the Eurozone. Whatever Macron thinks Trump can do to aid France's trade ambitions will become clearer in the fullness of time.

What we can assume from what we've seen of him so far, is that he will play his hand a lot more cleverly than Britain ever did.
Conflict On November 16, 2019




Girona, Spain
#11New Post! Aug 05, 2017 @ 19:59:18
@Jennifer1984 Said

I read elsewhere yesterday that after The Donald's visit to Paris for Bastille Day that the French are starting to call Emmanuel Macron "The Trump Whisperer".

During his visit Trump was wined and dined to within an inch of his life. They treated him like their Doofus American uncle over for a visit. When the Garde Republicaine rode into view, Trump's eyes nearly popped out of his head. Oh, the Gilt..!! The Glitz..!! The Pomp of it all..!! Napoleon's Tomb, The Jules Verne in the Eiffel Tower which is not only hideously expensive but almost impossible to get a booking in unless you're either the President of France or USA. Preferably both. All these things were laid before Trump to make him feel loved and important.

The payoff was the Orange One saying the'd "think about" his refusal to be a part of the Paris Agreement. Macron must have smiled quietly inside. This was game, set and match. "Chapeau bas" and a "Joli Coup" for France.

Whether Trump changes his mind or not, he's got his buddy Macron and in the process, UK lost whatever influence we had or importance we might have held.

Trump smiled at the press conference and told the American and French people that France was "The US's oldest and most faithful friend" (I suppose "French" Fries are back on the menu, across the pond now, eh..?). He said "The bond between the American and French people is unbreakable." He said "France is beautiful and just fine."

By contrast, his missive to Theresa May was an instruction that if she wants him to grace America's former "oldest and most faithful friend" with a visit she had better make sure that it "runs smooth".

But this isn't a one way street for Trump.

Europe is getting the measure of The Donald. While UK spends vast amounts of money on Liam Fox's various excursions across the pond to negotiate - with all the legal authority of mafia families carving up who is going to own which judges and politicians - trade deals that will seriously disadvantage UK, we are little by little being sent to the back of the queue that Obama threatened, and the Leave campaign told the British public was "scaremongering".

Churchill - who worked night and day to forge the Special Relationship to bring onside a country that vowed never to get involved in Europe again after joining what is known over there as The 1917-18 war - must be spinning in his shroud.

France is not gun running as it did during the War of Independence. It has a bright, young, very wily President who knows his history and understands the importance of symbols.

Brexit has become an opening and an opportunity to re-fashion the Franco-American Alliance while the UK is being swallowed up by Brexit.

I love France. I adore the country. And I know they have a saying over there. "France is eating Britain's lunch".

The zealots of Brexit.... the headbangers and just plain idiots who allow the Brexit fiasco to continue are diminishing Britain day by day, inch by inch.

I hope France enjoys it's new found friendship with America. That is, until America finds a new "oldest and most faithful friend".



If Trump could stop talking like a highschool cheerleader with needlessly aggressive, racist overtones towards the Mexicans, he might actually get somewhere. As it is, he doesn't act with the kind of maturity needed to make a good leader. He's in over his head to begin with. Politics was never his forte, nor was being subtle.

The news can confirm this. His conversation with Mexico's president goes to show just how low he'll go. Honestly, attacking Mexico through New Hampshire is dirty fighting to be sure, as is s***ting on prisoners. Check this link out...

Trump's idea of persuasion.

France had better watch its step with Trump. I love the country too and I'd hate for it to be caught in a s***storm along with Trump.
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