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This a link to a debate on " reparations for slavery " and "affirmative action " I found while surfing around the web .

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white_swan53 On November 07, 2019




n/a, New Mexico
#1New Post! Aug 22, 2014 @ 19:21:37
Would you support reparations for slavery in exchange for ending affirmative action?


I do not have any idea how the issues of Affirmative Action can be or ever will be resolved .
But since the people who were slave owners and the people who were enslaved, have all been worm food for more then a few centuries , I don't think ' reparations for slavery' will do much towards resolving the issues of affirmative action we find ourselves dealing with in America.
chaski On about 5 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Aug 22, 2014 @ 22:53:51
No.

Without being long-winded on the topic, I think that affirmative action still has a place. It may well be dwindling. Eventually it should fade away. But, for now there is some value, however limited some might feel that it is. And, affirmative action is about more than just african-americans.

Reparations... maybe there was a time when there should have been reparations, but that time has come and gone. This idea is ultimately a waste of time.
GreenAppleKing On April 23, 2015

Deleted



, United States (general)
#3New Post! Aug 23, 2014 @ 01:13:24
n
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#4New Post! Aug 23, 2014 @ 21:39:00
nope.

Thought out & careful documentation for reparations & keeping affirmative action as long as needed is my choice.

First Nation's get the same type of crap. Sovereignty & NO promised treaty support or NO reservation for treaty payment. Both bad & wrong.
Dredd On August 16, 2015




Sheffield, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Aug 23, 2014 @ 22:05:50
@white_swan53 Said

Would you support reparations for slavery in exchange for ending affirmative action?


I do not have any idea how the issues of Affirmative Action can be or ever will be resolved .
But since the people who were slave owners and the people who were enslaved, have all been worm food for more then a few centuries , I don't think ' reparations for slavery' will do much towards resolving the issues of affirmative action we find ourselves dealing with in America.



That depends, Would the issue just be to the descendents of Black slaves or would it be open to all former slaves~? My ancestors were enslaved by first the romans and then the vikings, and have continued to be enslaved through the use of a skewed financial system rather than chains.

Assuming that its just for the descendents of Kunta Kinte and its the state that would be paying on the assumption that most of the slave owners families are long gone, then No, I wouldn't.

If however that would be a huge re-distribution of wealth from the estates of former slave owners and old money then crack on, but there were more slaves than just Africans, and more areas of acute poverty than just African Americans in the ghetto.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#6New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 16:05:48
@Dredd Said

That depends, Would the issue just be to the descendents of Black slaves or would it be open to all former slaves~? My ancestors were enslaved by first the romans and then the vikings, and have continued to be enslaved through the use of a skewed financial system rather than chains.

Assuming that its just for the descendents of Kunta Kinte and its the state that would be paying on the assumption that most of the slave owners families are long gone, then No, I wouldn't.

If however that would be a huge re-distribution of wealth from the estates of former slave owners and old money then crack on, but there were more slaves than just Africans, and more areas of acute poverty than just African Americans in the ghetto.


I think this has more to do with the Governments involved & what was allowed. The Vikings & Romans might be a tad bit harder for you to track down at this late stage.
Dredd On August 16, 2015




Sheffield, United Kingdom
#7New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 16:29:41
Yes it would be a bit hard, but what I am saying(or was, that post is from a few months ago) that ALL society relies on enslavement in order for the apex to maintain its extravagant standard of living, they have simply replaced the chains with the impression of freedom, you are more productive thinking it is your choice where you work. The best bit- Its not going to change for you or I until we die.

The Egyptians, Romans etc built their empires on enslavement, The Vikings traded captives, even the birthplace of democracy had slavery, the European empires are built upon serfdom where by landowners were allowed to force their tenants to do anything, AND pay them taxes for the privileged of being forced to do so. In China the Terracotta Army and the Great Wall were built by slaves. The only difference is that the chain that holds us in place today is the false economy whereby we go to work to pay the bank/landlord for our house, the loan or Credit card company for out TV etc etc.

So, to conclude, if it would be a re-distribution of wealth across the board, this would be fair, anything else would be racist.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#8New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 19:19:30
@Dredd Said

Yes it would be a bit hard, but what I am saying(or was, that post is from a few months ago) that ALL society relies on enslavement in order for the apex to maintain its extravagant standard of living, they have simply replaced the chains with the impression of freedom, you are more productive thinking it is your choice where you work. The best bit- Its not going to change for you or I until we die.

The Egyptians, Romans etc built their empires on enslavement, The Vikings traded captives, even the birthplace of democracy had slavery, the European empires are built upon serfdom where by landowners were allowed to force their tenants to do anything, AND pay them taxes for the privileged of being forced to do so. In China the Terracotta Army and the Great Wall were built by slaves. The only difference is that the chain that holds us in place today is the false economy whereby we go to work to pay the bank/landlord for our house, the loan or Credit card company for out TV etc etc.

So, to conclude, if it would be a re-distribution of wealth across the board, this would be fair, anything else would be racist.


I pretty much agree with your assessment of the past & the folly for the future. I don't however feel it is racist to correct racism though. Yeah it sucks for those who are poor & not of the race being vindicated. I'm thinking here more of First Nations- not so much racism but Nation- though that indubitably was the intent (acknowledged or not) of the usa towards us. We consider it Nation to Nation & the transgressions were racist in nature.
Dredd On August 16, 2015




Sheffield, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 20:55:32
How about a crude analogy, if there are 3 people, all have a broken leg from a car wreck, and all have the same limp, but you only give the white guy any compensation, thats rascist. If there are two guys and and a girl, and only the guys get any compensation, thats sexist, but if they all get compensation, you are compensating them fairly.

Im saying dont compensate one till you can afford to compensate them ALL, as it would be seen to be preferential or racist.

Put it another way, IF Rosa Parks had been white, but poor, would it have been equality if she had been made to move? No, it would have been seen as equally as unjust, but we don't have a word for inequality on the grounds of wealth.

Slavery of the "Blacks"(word of the time) and "Chinese"(which people seem to forget a lot) ended in Europe and the USA now over a hundred years ago, rightfully, but we still have slavery, wouldnt it be better now that instead of spending the money on rewarding the descendents of former slaves, it would be spent on freeing other people from actual slavery rather than lifting people from financial slavery?

@shinobinoz Said

I pretty much agree with your assessment of the past & the folly for the future. I don't however feel it is racist to correct racism though. Yeah it sucks for those who are poor & not of the race being vindicated. I'm thinking here more of First Nations- not so much racism but Nation- though that indubitably was the intent (acknowledged or not) of the usa towards us. We consider it Nation to Nation & the transgressions were racist in nature.

It was a war, funny how at the same time as the USA was condemning Germany for invading Poland etc, they were still operating as an Occupying Power in their own country. I dont know what its like now, but its basically like I've been saying for the past few years, governments dont give a s*** about what people think, they care about what they can get away with and what they can make people think!
PTF On April 24, 2017

Banned



Indiana,
#10New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 20:57:24
It's simple...reparations is out of the question.
Affirmative stuff ?
That's what it is...stuff.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#11New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 23:19:22
@Dredd Said

How about a crude analogy, if there are 3 people, all have a broken leg from a car wreck, and all have the same limp, but you only give the white guy any compensation, thats rascist. If there are two guys and and a girl, and only the guys get any compensation, thats sexist, but if they all get compensation, you are compensating them fairly.

Im saying dont compensate one till you can afford to compensate them ALL, as it would be seen to be preferential or racist.

Put it another way, IF Rosa Parks had been white, but poor, would it have been equality if she had been made to move? No, it would have been seen as equally as unjust, but we don't have a word for inequality on the grounds of wealth.

Slavery of the "Blacks"(word of the time) and "Chinese"(which people seem to forget a lot) ended in Europe and the USA now over a hundred years ago, rightfully, but we still have slavery, wouldnt it be better now that instead of spending the money on rewarding the descendents of former slaves, it would be spent on freeing other people from actual slavery rather than lifting people from financial slavery?


It was a war, funny how at the same time as the USA was condemning Germany for invading Poland etc, they were still operating as an Occupying Power in their own country. I dont know what its like now, but its basically like I've been saying for the past few years, governments dont give a s*** about what people think, they care about what they can get away with and what they can make people think!


I generally agree. However the ills of that slavery must still be addressed at this time. The ills of genocide & ethnic cleansing of First Nations, the current issues with being excluded from societal changes & lack of input has kept peoples from obtaining such equality. Although poor people (no matter their race) feel some of the ills from our modern society & it's own slavery product- the majority culture poor person STILL has some benefits from the majority cultures "privilege". You must take that into consideration as well instead of simply stating we all must get exactly the same treatment - the reason being we have not all had the same opportunities (the ills placed on us from the majority culture & government).
I'm sure I did not explain this very clearly. Sorry.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#12New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 23:26:16
reparations?
I didn't own any slaves.
of any color.
I have heard Irish slaves suck.

Blazing Saddles "We Don't Want the Irish!"
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#13New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 23:48:03
@Willi Said

reparations?
I didn't own any slaves.
of any color.
I have heard Irish slaves suck.

Blazing Saddles "We Don't Want the Irish!"


True. The issue boils down to if you were discriminated against v.s. having some (not much granted) privilege based on color. The poor ALWAYS will have speed bumps in their way but far too many people (because of their culture/race have had roadblocks in their way.

I'm so hoping that affirmative action will soon not be needed. In the mean time we should not miss supporting equal access for all peoples.
Dredd On August 16, 2015




Sheffield, United Kingdom
#14New Post! Jan 10, 2015 @ 23:54:55
@shinobinoz Said

I generally agree. However the ills of that slavery must still be addressed at this time. The ills of genocide & ethnic cleansing of First Nations, the current issues with being excluded from societal changes & lack of input has kept peoples from obtaining such equality. Although poor people (no matter their race) feel some of the ills from our modern society & it's own slavery product- the majority culture poor person STILL has some benefits from the majority cultures "privilege". You must take that into consideration as well instead of simply stating we all must get exactly the same treatment - the reason being we have not all had the same opportunities (the ills placed on us from the majority culture & government).
I'm sure I did not explain this very clearly. Sorry.


Wouldn't it be better tho, rather than preferential treatment and reparations for past action, to address the inequality that still persists and level the playing field for everyone?

I know its not the same, there ARE differences between economic and actual slavery, but in making sure that it is put right and can never happen again, imho is more productive than someone kissing and making up and saying they are sorry, while they still hold a gun to your head. 1st Nations and aboriginal peoples are a different matter as the land cant be givven back, and nothing returned to how it was before, its sad but I'm afraid thats the reality, and tbh I dont know how it could be made better as I dont know the actual situation, the US Government and society has done a pretty good job of covering it up.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#15New Post! Jan 11, 2015 @ 00:05:55
@Dredd Said

Wouldn't it be better tho, rather than preferential treatment and reparations for past action, to address the inequality that still persists and level the playing field for everyone?

I know its not the same, there ARE differences between economic and actual slavery, but in making sure that it is put right and can never happen again, imho is more productive than someone kissing and making up and saying they are sorry, while they still hold a gun to your head. 1st Nations and aboriginal peoples are a different matter as the land cant be givven back, and nothing returned to how it was before, its sad but I'm afraid thats the reality, and tbh I dont know how it could be made better as I dont know the actual situation, the US Government and society has done a pretty good job of covering it up.


I've said we should try to provide equality for all. However- the needs remain higher for specific groups that can be connected directly to the in-equalities of the past. Those must be addressed or else you don't give a reason for it not to occur again in the future. And YES we certainly can & should give land back to First Nation's as opposed to turning them over to industry & private hands when they are taken out of Federal Control.
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