The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums: Science:
Psychology

The psychology of provoked retaliation

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>
Conflict On July 26, 2020




Alcalá de Henares, Spain
#1New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 18:31:02
Twenty two years ago, I witnessed a fight at my school. One of my friends was involved and he threw the first punch. How the incident happened was very unfortunate and there was no acceptable reason for it.

Freddy, a guy who was said to have had mental problems was admitted to the school. He was because the headmistress had a soft spot for underdogs with cerebral and learning difficulties. He was doing okay for a little while, but, following another incident I´ll go into later to give the topic perhaps a little more depth, he got expelled for the event I'm about to share on this forum.

One day, in the afternoon lesson, our teacher asked Freddy take away the sweet wrappers and the coke can he'd left on the table from his snack during the day's lunch break. He refused and said she could do it because she was closer. She tried to insist, but he continued to refuse and unfortunately our teacher gave in.

About fifteen minutes later, our teacher asked Freddy to help her put a stack of papers on one of the higher shelves, because he was a tall person. Freddy refused again. I don't recall the reason this time around, but one of my buddies, Myron, objected to Freddy, saying that he was showing a lack of respect for the tutor and urged him to do as he asked.

Freddy decided to react against Myron by getting up, taking the stack of papers, going over to Myron and throwing them in his face, scattering them all over the room, blurting out, 'since you want to help the teacher so much, you put them up there!'

Myron decided to stand up and object to Freddy further. Freddy retorted angrily, in a way I also can't remember, but I do remember him calling Myron a piece of s*** and then he shoved him.

Myron reacted furiously, shouting, 'you think I'm a piece of s***?!' and then he punched him before charging Freddy and taking him to the floor. A scuffle ensued and Myron and Freddy exchanged punches. At one point, Myron got on top of Freddy and at this point I couldn't see what was happening from my angle. I did see, however, Freddy kicking out with one leg and sending a nearby PC keyboard flying so high into the air and so fast, its cable got disconnected cleanly from the computer and it spun in mid-air almost hitting ceiling, before crashing down to the floor.

Myron and Freddy were separated by two of my other collegues. They both came up from the floor, Myron bleeding from the lip and Freddy sporting a bruised ear and colored eye.

Now, I asked Myron about this altercation a few years later and he told me that he had to throw the first punch because Freddy shoved him.

I would like to put this question to my fellow forum members: does shoving someone call for the first punch from the recipient?
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#2New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 19:05:56
it is normal at that if you are shove, you naturally want to strike back.

the person, who has been shove, doesn't have to participate in throwing the first punch. that person is better off to get up and walk away.
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#3New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 19:11:42
does shoving someone call for the first punch from the recipient.

yes, in sense, that would be true. it is a little immature from the person, that was shoving someone else to start a fight.
Electric_Banana On August 02, 2020




, New Zealand
#4New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 19:14:21
@Conflict Said

Twenty two years ago, I witnessed a fight at my school. One of my friends was involved and he threw the first punch. How the incident happened was very unfortunate and there was no acceptable reason for it.

Freddy, a guy who was said to have had mental problems was admitted to the school. He was because the headmistress had a soft spot for underdogs with cerebral and learning difficulties. He was doing okay for a little while, but, following another incident I´ll go into later to give the topic perhaps a little more depth, he got expelled for the event I'm about to share on this forum.

One day, in the afternoon lesson, our teacher asked Freddy take away the sweet wrappers and the coke can he'd left on the table from his snack during the day's lunch break. He refused and said she could do it because she was closer. She tried to insist, but he continued to refuse and unfortunately our teacher gave in.

About fifteen minutes later, our teacher asked Freddy to help her put a stack of papers on one of the higher shelves, because he was a tall person. Freddy refused again. I don't recall the reason this time around, but one of my buddies, Myron, objected to Freddy, saying that he was showing a lack of respect for the tutor and urged him to do as he asked.

Freddy decided to react against Myron by getting up, taking the stack of papers, going over to Myron and throwing them in his face, scattering them all over the room, blurting out, 'since you want to help the teacher so much, you put them up there!'

Myron decided to stand up and object to Freddy further. Freddy retorted angrily, in a way I also can't remember, but I do remember him calling Myron a piece of s*** and then he shoved him.

Myron reacted furiously, shouting, 'you think I'm a piece of s***?!' and then he punched him before charging Freddy and taking him to the floor. A scuffle ensued and Myron and Freddy exchanged punches. At one point, Myron got on top of Freddy and at this point I couldn't see what was happening from my angle. I did see, however, Freddy kicking out with one leg and sending a nearby PC keyboard flying so high into the air and so fast, its cable got disconnected cleanly from the computer and it spun in mid-air almost hitting ceiling, before crashing down to the floor.

Myron and Freddy were separated by two of my other collegues. They both came up from the floor, Myron bleeding from the lip and Freddy sporting a bruised ear and colored eye.

Now, I asked Myron about this altercation a few years later and he told me that he had to throw the first punch because Freddy shoved him.

I would like to put this question to my fellow forum members: does shoving someone call for the first punch from the recipient?



Myron threw the first punch when he humiliated Freddy; scolding him for not helping the teacher. There is a time when someone really is getting abused so playing a hero is necessary, most other times the 'hero' just wants to boast about how big their d*** is. (ie; Captain Save-A-Hoe )
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#5New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 19:29:37
Myron is the bully in this situation , and freddy is the victim.

freddy will be brother by Myron, most of school years. myron is a little boy, who need a center of attendance. myron will be Freddy's victim.

myron doesn't understand the whys that freddy is attacking him, but myron will defended himself. freddy is lucky that myron doesn't clear his clock, with one good blow.

that would solve everything for myron, freddy would or might strike back, or myron might be scared off enough, he will be brother again.

like I said before, that myron react normally to Freddy's shove. that age, these boys were, myron is right. that he would have to start the fight with the first blow.
Conflict On July 26, 2020




Alcalá de Henares, Spain
#6New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 21:54:53
@Electric_Banana Said

Myron threw the first punch when he humiliated Freddy; scolding him for not helping the teacher. There is a time when someone really is getting abused so playing a hero is necessary, most other times the 'hero' just wants to boast about how big their d*** is. (ie; Captain Save-A-Hoe )


Myron didn't humiliate Freddy. As I recall, he told Freddy to behave in a civilized way and show some respect. Sadly, no one else did that. I was too taken aback by the experience of Freddy refusing to aid our teacher, who was a very nice, very gentle person, to intervene. Two of my other friends, Chris and Terry were likewise unable to react.

It could have been this incident that made our teacher quit the school. I was very sorry to see her go, but I understood why this event in her life drove her away. She may have had other reasons for leaving, but I feel that Freddy's negligent attitude towards her and witnessing him perform such violent acts might have upset her very much.
white_swan53 On March 19, 2020




n/a, New Mexico
#7New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 23:10:25
Myron involved himself in something that was none of his concern .
The teacher or tutor should have had a 'plan of action' prepared to respond in an effective way to Freddy he started acting up and disrupting the class.
Does it really matter who started it ? Since the teacher allowed it to go all the way to the two of them trading punches, wouldn't the teacher own some of the blame for not stopping it ?
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#8New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 23:33:31
@white_swan53 Said

Myron involved himself in something that was none of his concern .
The teacher or tutor should have had a 'plan of action' prepared to respond in an effective way to Freddy he started acting up and disrupting the class.
Does it really matter who started it ? Since the teacher allowed it to go all the way to the two of them trading punches, wouldn't the teacher own some of the blame for not stopping it ?


I think this what conflict mean when he said. the teacher quits, because of her actions, or lack of actions on this matter.
DuLu On January 11, 2017
CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!





Waverly, Washington
#9New Post! Sep 21, 2016 @ 23:49:55
Provoked retaliation? As in, back in the day, unions would hire agitators to be in the crowds to help stir up the masses towards the unions' goals?

Pissing contests? (well "X" started it, and "Y" needs to stand their ground?)
Dog poker? (then innocently proclaiming 'wuzn't me'?)
Bubble buster (invading a person's space because 'one' can?) -- because others shouldn't be so sensitive and their sh*t don't stink, and yours/ours don't either.
*Back in the day, putting a burr under the saddle of a horse (then acting all innocent, proclaiming no knowledge of why the horse spooked and tromped the rider who ends up paralyzed or dead?)
*Same thing with cutting a person's brake lines on a vehicle - especially if/when ya know they will be on a windy/twisty road in the near future --- (then acting as if you have no knowledge, and stating that when questioned by police and investigators?)

triple ppffffhhhhhtttttttt

Everyone involved (directly/indirectly) should be held accountable and responsible for their action/non-action as it relates to this matter.

Having said that - have no idea how to 'make' that happen. Some of the responsibility/accountability could be legal, but much of it is about morals/values.
white_swan53 On March 19, 2020




n/a, New Mexico
#10New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 00:00:01
@twilitezone911 Said

I think this what conflict mean when he said. the teacher quits, because of her actions, or lack of actions on this matter.


I read the OP and replied to it .

Is that what conflict said ?
I guess I missed that post .
I read " It could have been " and " She may have had " and
"might have " . And something about "but I feel " .
All of which has no suggestion of any definite facts on the teachers reasons for leaving , if I'm not mistaken (and I could be ) that post is conjure .aint it ?
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#11New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 00:23:38
@white_swan53 Said

I read the OP and replied to it .

Is that what conflict said ?
I guess I missed that post .
I read " It could have been " and " She may have had " and
"might have " . And something about "but I feel " .
All of which has no suggestion of any definite facts on the teachers reasons for leaving , if I'm not mistaken (and I could be ) that post is conjure .aint it ?


I was questions that post to myself. it doesn't make sense.

why a teacher quit or being fired by this. it wasn't nothing, she could done by it.

conflict never said the two kids were suspense. which it wouldn't make sense, either.

I don't think she quit or being fired, had anything to do with this incident. I don't think the teacher saw it coming.

she was aware of the problem with these two kids, I think the whole class aware of these two.

I think the teacher was very concern about her students, and want something than do nothing for both of them. that might cause her for dismissal.
DuLu On January 11, 2017
CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!





Waverly, Washington
#12New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 00:27:35
No one made the teacher quit/leave.
That was her choice.

Life isn't fair - but in the end we are
each one of us morally and oft times legally
responsible and accountable for our choices.

Yes, even the provokers. The provokers CHOOSE to do this/that.
The provokEES then responds, choosing a course of action of their own.

@Conflict Said

Myron didn't humiliate Freddy. As I recall, he told Freddy to behave in a civilized way and show some respect. Sadly, no one else did that. I was too taken aback by the experience of Freddy refusing to aid our teacher, who was a very nice, very gentle person, to intervene. Two of my other friends, Chris and Terry were likewise unable to react.

It could have been this incident that made our teacher quit the school. I was very sorry to see her go, but I understood why this event in her life drove her away. She may have had other reasons for leaving, but I feel that Freddy's negligent attitude towards her and witnessing him perform such violent acts might have upset her very much.
DuLu On January 11, 2017
CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!





Waverly, Washington
#13New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 00:36:00
Yes, agree, there is conjecture.

And IMO, based on the initial OP and the follow up conjecturing which adds further clarity to the dilemma - OP is looking for opinions about I would like to put this question to my fellow forum members: does shoving someone call for the first punch from the recipient? ----based on the initial OP and the additional conjecture. All this is 'hypothetically speaking', that is.

All circumstancial - sometimes walk away is the best answer.
Sometimes - stand your ground, fight back physically or psychologically -- especially if they 'started' it.
------generally in moderation, a defensive manner, rather then excessively doing so.

The old choose your/one's battles, then move on.

@white_swan53 Said

I read the OP and replied to it .

Is that what conflict said ?
I guess I missed that post .
I read " It could have been " and " She may have had " and
"might have " . And something about "but I feel " .
All of which has no suggestion of any definite facts on the teachers reasons for leaving , if I'm not mistaken (and I could be ) that post is conjure .aint it ?
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#14New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 00:53:55
if I was freddy, I know my counselor that high school assign to me.

should have told freddy not engage any conflicts, and simply walk away. he or she would explain to freddy that the best defense is to walk away.

or try to put up with the problems and stand up for yourself with bullies. fighting never solve the problem. it really doesn't in the long way.

obviously, freddy could understand that laugh at Myron, to make a fool out of Myron. Myron would leave him alone. bullies don't like that.

my counselors told me, if I saw a bully coming toward me in the hallway, just go in the opposite direction from him. it did works, in time, he left me alone.
white_swan53 On March 19, 2020




n/a, New Mexico
#15New Post! Sep 22, 2016 @ 01:39:44
@DuLu Said

Yes, agree, there is conjecture.

And IMO, based on the initial OP and the follow up conjecturing which adds further clarity to the dilemma - OP is looking for opinions about I would like to put this question to my fellow forum members: does shoving someone call for the first punch from the recipient? ----based on the initial OP and the additional conjecture. All this is 'hypothetically speaking', that is.

All circumstancial - sometimes walk away is the best answer.
Sometimes - stand your ground, fight back physically or psychologically -- especially if they 'started' it.
------generally in moderation, a defensive manner, rather then excessively doing so.

The old choose your/one's battles, then move on.


So, the correct answer to the question is ' It would depend on the circumstances, the person's involved mind set at the time and what if any , chance's there are for 'referee and or big dudes to break it up before it gets started '.


Actually , the first 'wrong step' was the kid who for whatever reason , involved himself in something that was none of his concern , and was all down hill from that point.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Random
Tue May 04, 2010 @ 18:05
10 667
New posts   Television
Tue Sep 09, 2008 @ 11:11
16 1098
New posts   Entertainment
Mon May 22, 2006 @ 21:20
1 367
New posts   Random
Wed Nov 30, 2005 @ 17:23
9 629
New posts   Random
Mon May 30, 2005 @ 13:36
17 792