The debt ceiling

Should it be raised or what?

And what are the ramifications of any of the options presented, either here or elsewhere?

Yes, because in the short term there is no choice really.

Only if the government actively recognizes and understands the value of prudence and spending within means, adding debt only for the lack of funding at hand to satisfy fundamental and urgent needs. Once those precepts are established, then it can be determined if this or any future added debt is necessary.

Just as with any individual. Going into debt to get a second, third car when you only need one is not doing this. Going into debt to get or repair a car when you have no other means to go to work is.

From what I understand, the interest on loans made by the federal government alone will push it past the limit.

This will in effect mean that the government will no longer have the means to pay the minimal interest on the loans it already has taken.

I'm sure you understand perfectly well what would happen if the government failed to pay minimum interest on a loan, don't you?

Or they could cut spending and avoid having to raise the limit.

Yeah, it's due to not following those principles I just spelled out for the past several decades. We have so overspent, that we are just now just trying to keep our heads up a bit longer, but still spiraling towards an eventual collapse or foreign takeover, probably both.

Again, using an individual spending analogy, it's like racking up a huge uncontrollable credit card debt that forces you to take out an additional loan just to keep up with the interest and minimal payments, which, in turn, adds more interest and payments, and so on it goes, until you simply cannot keep up anymore.

Bankruptcy.

Lesson learned.

Next time spend within means.

Starting from the past several decades, outline a governmental policy that fulfills the basic reqirements of government which include adequete funding for military, social, and economic policies that keep in line with the ideaologoies of the parties running the government at each trade-off of power.

Account also for the spending in the various cold and hot wars that erupted during this period of time.

You are not allowed to borrow any amount of money whatsoever.

Where exactly?

Social security, medicare, and medicaid are all required by law. They are also paid through federal taxes, and are thus universally entitled.

Defense is out. Another major cost.

Which leaves discretionary programs in the non-military catagory.

That leaves us with 520 billion projected.

The total deficit for the fiscal year, leaving in interest and removing the entire 520 billion from the non-military discretionary catagory, and factoring in projected income for 2011 leaves us with about 747 billion dollars in the red.

Currently, even with this number I would guess that we have about a year, maybe two tops, if we don't increase revenue, don't increase the deficit ceiling and completly cut all non-military discretionary spending, starting now.

If the ceiling is set at 14.3 trillion, and the starting position for the debt subject to the ceiling is a little over 13 trillion as cited by this article , that leaves a roughly 1-1.3 trillion gap, maybe. I'd need a more precise number to be sure. Anyway, completley removing discretionary non-military spending from both fiscal years 2011 and 2012 will result in a net deficit gain of 1100 billion dollars.

And thats assuming things like school grants and federal social services like them are completley removed from the equation. With them, we have about 1 year, maybe ten months at most, since the fiscal year starts in November.

Here is the source of my numbers. Start on page 155, and work your way down. Most of it is taken from the spreadsheet on that page, but the graphs past that point are all very useful. Especially the pie chart.

Congress has to raise the federal debt ceiling. Problem is whether there's any way to viably control government spending, local to federal, from here forward. Two township governments near me are presently building massive town government buildings while fair numbers of the residents struggle to stay afloat and make ends meet. All the tax moneys involved pretty much come from from those above certain income levels in any regard, and a massive percentage of US citizens and residents do not contribute.

Without some radical changes to our tax system, audits on tax funded programs that are redundant and/or ineffective, elimination of such and real control over necessary spending and required funding, we are eventually headed to a point that will create a tremendous economic crisis in government; we are pretty much there with the tax base.

Here are a few solutions. No pensions for our Congress. Put unemployed to work. Limit top salaries on public employees. Reinstate the draft. And others/

comparing personal or corporate finance to public finance isn't valid

for example: bankruptcy doesn't apply, national and state governments are protected by 'sovereign immunity'

If it cannot be done, then it would be time to re-examine your ideology, wouldn't it? Some things just aren't meant to be very practical.

Yes, but they can still collapse under the weight of debt. This is all I was using the analogy for.

Ok, where exactly are you going to cut $1.5 trillion in spending?

We could stop sending raditz government cheese.