The Way of the Sage

@dookie Said

Maybe if we had at least some insight into how we ARE interacting with others we would realise that most things we are prepared to die for are empty slogans.

@Jennifer1984 Said

The human race is made up of people and all the time that is the case, there will be confrontation.

In my opinion it's perfectly acceptable to 'call somebody out' when they say things with which I vehemently disagree for perfectly valid and moral reasons. The actual words used express the level of that disagreement.

We would all like to be nice to each other. But would a point being made have any impact if it were tiptoed around by being written with less vehemence...?

As we all know, only a small part of personal human interaction is verbal. In a face to face conversation it is easy to be polite, well mannered and even softly spoken because our facial expression, tone and other forms of body language express the level of feeling that we're putting into our remarks.

A good point, well made even in the softest of tones has to be responded to almost immediately. The respondent can be made to wriggle on the hook quite easily with good argument. But in a forum, he can go away... think about it.... prepare a reply..... check and edit it before clicking 'send'. And we've seen how some people can be obtuse in constantly repeating the same old, same old, many times. In a forum, it is possible to set a default position to deflect any argument that you otherwise can't handle.

In a medium such as a forum, only the written word exists. There is no physical nuance to emphasise a point. For this reason, the written message has to be unequivocal.

This is not the real world. Real world standards don't apply.

@dookie Said

Not seeking to "feign wisdom" nor be pretentious, but for me "enlightenment/salvation/unshakeable deliverance of mind" (call it whatever) is the "bottom line".

Therefore as I see it, there need be no confrontation. It takes two to tango.

I agree that interaction on a Forum is necessarily different from face to face meetings.

@Jennifer1984 Said

That is a very noble goal and if I thought it were attainable I'd be right there next to you.

Sadly, the world is considerably more down-dirty than that and short of being able to totally insulate oneself from it, I simply strive to look after myself and my family as best I can.

At work and in the company of friends, colleagues, peers and those to whom I have an obligation to conduct myself with certain standards I'm all sweetness and light. You may find that difficult to believe, but it's true.

As we've been doing quotations recently, I'll employ one here. William Shakespeare (Henry V) when given the opportunity to surrender before Agincourt. "Return you to your master and quote me thus. We would not seek a battle as we are, but as we are, we will not shun it."

I don't go looking to pick a fight with anybody, but if there is an issue that has to be dealt with, I won't run away from it."

I don't find you at all pretentious and I enjoy reading your posts. There is much to be learned from them. I guess you're at a stage of life where all the lessons that needed to be learned the hard way have been absorbed and you have the luxury of being able to sit back and observe the world without necessarily having to get involved in the muck and bullets of it anymore.

Seeking enlightenment is a good thing, but if you've ever been spat on in the street outside the nightclub you've just emerged from, you'd understand that enlightenment isn't the name of the game at that moment in time.

When you come out of your house in the morning to find you've had your car and front door spray painted with abuse during the night, it's not easy to think of the person who did it in benign terms.

The sort of people who do these things have to be challenged. They don't understand the 'enlightened approach'. Now, in the instances I mentioned above, my responses were pretty immediate - and lawful, I hasten to add. These weren't the sort of people who listen to reasoned argument. They needed to be made to know they'd done wrong and a quiet, philosophical word wasn't going to do the trick.

As I said - and you agreed - discussion forums are different to the real world, but the mentality of those who have hateful mindsets isn't. The need to challenge these people is just as imperative. It's just done in a different way.

@dookie Said

Maybe if we had at least some insight into how we ARE interacting with others we would realise that most things we are prepared to die for are empty slogans.