No offense MHB, but I cannot be bothered reading your badly quoted post. If you would like to repost it so it is readable MHB, that would be great. Otherwise, I am not going to bother. However, as I flicked through it, I found one or two gems, and I would like to briefly discuss those.
@MadCornishBiker Said
All who are, either foolish enough, gullible enough, bigoted enough or biased enough to fall for the false teachings you adhere to so blindly and determinedly.
This is the funny thing about you MHB. The cult you belong to says that because a few people adhered to our beliefs (people that include Mohammad and Greber), that this is evidence for the JW view.
Now, if I say the majority of Christians have adhered to a doctrine that is counter to yours, you claim this is evidence for your view, because the majority of people are wrong. Cult logic - not logic.
If I point out that the Council of Nicaea was called to eliminate the false teachings that were creeping into Christian thought, such as the belief that Christ was not God - which was not the view held by the overwhelming majority of Christians, then, doubtless, this will be 'proof' that the majority were wrong even then.
This may appear logical to you, MHB, but it is quite simply dumb, as a little reflection would show you.
@MadCornishBiker Said Yes, you have showed me that one person said that it was likely not the Society. You have also shown me that the Society said it would be a disappointment if it didn't happen.
Yes, and who was that one person? Why, he was the leader of the cult. And, he said that his entire way of interpreting events would merrily fly out the window if his predictions turned out false (I won't bother to call them false prophecies anymore, as we all know that that is what they were, but, you will bizarrely do the "prophecy is not prophecy" defense, and I can't be bothered dealing with it anymore).
So, MHB, what we have established from this, is that the JWs now lie to their followers. Don't they MHB? Did you know that it was the cult leaders that arrived at these dates for Armageddon Mhb? *And* that they said it would work "irreparable wreck" on their entire system if 1914/15 did not see the end of this system MHB? Of course you didn't. Unless you too have been lying all this time.
But, in your defense MHB, they do not tell their followers that it was their cult leaders that came up with these wrong dates and biblical interpretations, do they?
@MadCornishBiker Said I don't understand Koine Greek, nor do I claim to, yet even I can see the glaring error in the common translation of John 1:1, and understand why so many have interreted it differently. As you say, logic, simple logic.
What "common error"? The error of consistency, the error of correct interpretation and proper application of rules of Greek? What a shocker MHB.
@MadCornishBiker Said Neither of the above fit what you have claimed for the Society as a whole, and both of which reveal either your bias, bigotry or gullibility for what it may be, whichever applies.
Oh how false you are MHB. It almost defies belief.
In 1904, the Watchtower said the following:
The stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912 - culminating with the end of the "Times of the Gentiles in 1914." And before you spaz out and try to redefine the meaning of this term so that it does not say what it says, let us bear in mind that Russell already said, in the quote I gave you earlier, that the end of this "Time of the Gentiles" would see Israel returned to favour etc etc. In other words, the JWs are wrong, and they lie about it.
And, in May 1914, the Watchtower said there is no reason for bible students to doubt that the "consummation of this Gospel age" is now at the door, and that the great crisis that "will consume the ecclesiastical heavens and the social earth is even now very near." (And again, to cut off pitiful objections, I will point out the obvious - this is said in relation to the assertions made by cult leader Russell, that Armageddon would occur in 1914/15).
@MadCornishBiker Said But at least it is logic, and the truth is impossible to beat in the end whether it comes from what you believe to be a cult or not.
I said to you,
if people agree with you, it shows you are right. If people disagree with you, it shows you are right. And then I added, 'you can't beat cult logic.'.
And you respond with this.
It is this that I get bored by MHB. The realisation on my part that that the person I am talking to is bereft of reasoning abilities by virtue of cult indoctrination.
I pity you. And I mean this sincerely. I do not see how someone could exist in the state you are in and not be wracked with mental issues (and this is not an attack on you - as I have said before, I have a friend in your cult. I honestly despair for Jehovah's Witnesses. You, I think, are one of the lucky ones. Having been kicked out, you at least have hope of deprogramming yourself.
If I had to guess, I would say that you are struggling at the moment with the fact that you are free to think for the first time in a long time, but possibly afraid to, as it runs counter to the cults teaching on blind obedience. And, let's be honest, if the world is either JW or Satan (as the JWs teach), there is no help for you anywhere. More than likely, you even sense somewhere inside, something that is wrong or missing in the JW system, but again, to question is to risk loss of hope.
I honestly hope you work it out, MCB.
@MadCornishBiker Said That statement in itself says it all.
No true worshipper of the "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" could ever find discussions of scripture boring,
It is not scripture that bores me, MHB, it is the pointless, all round repetitiveness of the posts with you that bore me. I cannot see a way through. I feel for you, but at the same time, I simply do not have the time to spend going around in pointless circles. You have to work out the truth on your own.
@MadCornishBiker Said
KJV(i) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Can you not see how that the above, which bolsters the Athansian Creed is a distinct contradiction to the following:- All from Translation other than the NWT.
1 Peter 1:3 (KJV)
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Well first, in the limited time I have, I am going to answer these scriptures off the top of my head. I do not see any reason to do more, as I am sure there will be no need to.
@MadCornishBiker Said If Christ has a God over him how can he be equal to that God?
For the reason that scripture mentions perhaps? When Christ did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but rather, emptied himself and became like a man.
@MadCornishBiker Said John 7:28 (CAB)
Therefore Jesus cried out, as He was teaching in the temple, saying, "You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come on my own, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
If Jesus was sent, who was superior to him and could send him,?
Does someone need to be superior to someone to send them somewhere. I have sent my girlfriends to the shops once or twice over the years to buy me stuff. Does that mean I am superior to them? (And yes, I know that's a bad example, because, it goes without saying that I am superior to all my girlfriends
)
@MadCornishBiker Said John 5:19-23
KJV(i) 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
MHB, this quote actually reveals the deity of Christ repeatedly, to be honest.
God is the judge, but the Father gives judgement into the hands of Jesus, but, God is our judge.
Jesus can only do what the father does. Jesus in fact, does what the father does.
The son gives life to whoever he will. Can any other than God do that?
Again, Christ refers to himself as God, by referring to himself as the son of God.
Anyone that dishonours the son, dishonours the father.
I am sure that if I could be bothered, I could find and cut and paste a massive explanation of this particular scripture, but, I really do not see the point.
@MadCornishBiker Said Are you trying to tell me that the son is not subservient to the Father according to this scripture?
Yes, that is what I am telling you. At least, he is not subservient to the father in the way you imply. Christ volunteered to become lower than he was when 'he did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, but rather, humbled himself,' and became less than he was, in order to become like a man.
Now, in that text, it is made clear that Christ *was* equal to God, but he made himself less. Thus, it is obvious that, as a man, he could not have been equal to God.
@MadCornishBiker Said Need I go on, there are so many more that contradict John 1:1.
Yes, I think you need to go on. In fact, I hope these opening salvos were the weaker proofs, because they were much weaker than I thought (and by that I mean, the tenacity with which JWs hold to this obvious falsehood, lead me to believe that they had at least one or two reasonable arguments in favour of their position. To find that people are convinced by such flimsy - almost non-evidence as this, is kind of surprising.
Can you save us the time MHB, and just point out the scriptural '
pièce de résistance' if in fact there is one?
And I know they are nutters who adhere to a false doctrine. So what?
____________________
MCB, just an aside here, but, I am sure that many, maybe even most, JWs are passionate and genuine people. However, so too are many Muslims. Believing a thing does not make it true.