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The Art of the Deal?

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Leon On about 1 hour ago




San Diego, California
#1New Post! Aug 05, 2019 @ 16:09:08
Trump was elected on the promise of his great deal making ability.

So let’s see where this has taken us...

China. Debilitating tariffs, a tax increase on the American consumer, continue to escalate, and China today even suspended all U.S. agricultural imports as well as devalued its currency to historic lows, both devastating blows to U.S. farmers and other exporters. Stocks have tumbled as well.

North Korea. Kim has fired off of a series of missiles this week in retaliation for stalled talks, resulting ongoing sanctions, and military exercises taking place below the southern border. In other words, things haven’t improved at all and North Korea is still developing weapons.

Iran. A nuclear arms deal which kept the peace has been reneged upon, resulting in escalating rhetoric, conflict, and captures of oil tankers, disrupting the oil trade industry and driving up gas prices for American consumers. No replacement deal has taken place, nor does there appear to be anytime soon.

Mexico. Instead of making Mexico pay for the border wall or forcing Mexicans to pay for it via indirect means, due to Mexican refusal to do so, Trump has instead declared an emergency action to divert U.S. defense expenditures for the purpose of building a wall, leading to the necessity of increased defense spending in the latest budget deal.

Russia. A nuclear arms deal was reneged upon, resulting in future nuclear arms proliferation by both countries and increased defense spending. No replacement deal has taken place, nor has there been any talk of one.

Paris Accord. The United States dropped out of this deal that called for worldwide action against climate change, instead forcing other nations to make up for the difference and making it that much harder to prevent the impending consequences if net emissions are not cut in half by 2030 and reduced to zero by 2050, per global scientific consensus.

Washington. One self serving major piece of legislation was passed in 2017 that lowered taxes for the wealthy, but other than that we have seen very little in terms of legislation passed by a Trump-serving Senate, led by Mitch McConnell, that refuses to even take up anything, let alone, negotiate on anything passed by the Democratic controlled House.

Final grade: F-

You voters have been hoodwinked.
restoreone On November 03, 2019




, Ohio
#2New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 02:36:58
@Leon Said

Trump was elected on the promise of his great deal making ability.

So let’s see where this has taken us...

China. Debilitating tariffs, a tax increase on the American consumer, continue to escalate, and China today even suspended all U.S. agricultural imports as well as devalued its currency to historic lows, both devastating blows to U.S. farmers and other exporters. Stocks have tumbled as well.

North Korea. Kim has fired off of a series of missiles this week in retaliation for stalled talks, resulting ongoing sanctions, and military exercises taking place below the southern border. In other words, things haven’t improved at all and North Korea is still developing weapons.

Iran. A nuclear arms deal which kept the peace has been reneged upon, resulting in escalating rhetoric, conflict, and captures of oil tankers, disrupting the oil trade industry and driving up gas prices for American consumers. No replacement deal has taken place, nor does there appear to be anytime soon.

Mexico. Instead of making Mexico pay for the border wall or forcing Mexicans to pay for it via indirect means, due to Mexican refusal to do so, Trump has instead declared an emergency action to divert U.S. defense expenditures for the purpose of building a wall, leading to the necessity of increased defense spending in the latest budget deal.

Russia. A nuclear arms deal was reneged upon, resulting in future nuclear arms proliferation by both countries and increased defense spending. No replacement deal has taken place, nor has there been any talk of one.

Paris Accord. The United States dropped out of this deal that called for worldwide action against climate change, instead forcing other nations to make up for the difference and making it that much harder to prevent the impending consequences if net emissions are not cut in half by 2030 and reduced to zero by 2050, per global scientific consensus.

Washington. One self serving major piece of legislation was passed in 2017 that lowered taxes for the wealthy, but other than that we have seen very little in terms of legislation passed by a Trump-serving Senate, led by Mitch McConnell, that refuses to even take up anything, let alone, negotiate on anything passed by the Democratic controlled House.

Final grade: F-

You voters have been hoodwinked.

Still not understanding the art of the deal.
Jennifer1984 On about 5 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 05:28:29
At least you voted him into office. We've had Boris Johnson foisted on us by 92,153 Tory party members. 0.13% of the national electorate and by way of comparison, not many more people than would attend the FA Cup Final.

And Brexiters will tell you the EU is undemocratic...!!!

You have the opportunity to get rid of Trump next year. My tip? Use it.
gakINGKONG On about 1 hour ago




, Florida
#4New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 06:53:19
@Jennifer1984 Said

At least you voted him into office. We've had Boris Johnson foisted on us by 92,153 Tory party members. 0.13% of the national electorate and by way of comparison, not many more people than would attend the FA Cup Final.

And Brexiters will tell you the EU is undemocratic...!!!

You have the opportunity to get rid of Trump next year. My tip? Use it.



Leon probably cannot take credit for helping Trump win in the election of 2016. --that's just a guess
SimplyxComplicated On September 07, 2019
Lookit that booty





Fort Worth, Texas
#5New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 07:38:32
I definitely did not vote for him.

and you've forgotten to mention the part where he pissed off Canada with his amazing ability.
bob_the_fisherman On November 15, 2019
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#6New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 09:45:45
@Leon Said

China. Debilitating tariffs, a tax increase on the American consumer, continue to escalate, and China today even suspended all U.S. agricultural imports as well as devalued its currency to historic lows, both devastating blows to U.S. farmers and other exporters. Stocks have tumbled as well.


It's true that China have been allowed to manipulate trade for far too long, and I agree with you that they are engaging in extremely dodgy practices and need to be dealt with. It's just that the US should not be going it alone. And of course, they were left unchecked for 8 years to engage in other very hawkish festivities under the former failed regime in the US.

@Leon Said
North Korea. Kim has fired off of a series of missiles this week in retaliation for stalled talks, resulting ongoing sanctions, and military exercises taking place below the southern border. In other words, things haven’t improved at all and North Korea is still developing weapons.


Again here. You are right. Nothing has changed since Trump took office. Still, as Trump said at the time, a succession of previous Presidents successfully did nothing, whereas Trump is prepared to risk failure to achieve something.

@Leon Said
Iran. A nuclear arms deal which kept the peace has been reneged upon, resulting in escalating rhetoric, conflict, and captures of oil tankers, disrupting the oil trade industry and driving up gas prices for American consumers. No replacement deal has taken place, nor does there appear to be anytime soon.


Obama's deal was the worst deal made in history - it even made Chamberlain's capitulation look astute. It fast tracked Iran's nuclear ambitions and was a deal we now know they were not adhering to, but, even if they were, nuclear weapons were on their radar. And while Germany and other nations are helping Russia's ally, once again, Trump is right. A nuclear Iran is an Obama catastrophe. The USA should not be going it alone because the western nations trying to ensure a nuclear Iran should not be trying to commit suicide, but, it is what it is.

You grade him an F yet he is lightyears ahead of the previous guy and still better than any alternative on the horizon from either party.

And I say this as the guy who is extremely annoyed that under Trump's tenure the free world is becoming extinct.

The west is dead. We may as well accept it and prepare for the pleasantries to come.
bob_the_fisherman On November 15, 2019
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#7New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 09:49:35
@Jennifer1984 Said

At least you voted him into office. We've had Boris Johnson foisted on us by 92,153 Tory party members.


I know how you feel there Jen. There is no excuse for the democratic will of the people being overruled. None. Nada. That is why Borry must get Brexit done, deal or no deal.
mrmhead On 17 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#8New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 11:42:03
@bob_the_fisherman Said

It's true that China have been allowed to manipulate trade for far too long, and I agree with you that they are engaging in extremely dodgy practices and need to be dealt with. It's just that the US should not be going it alone. And of course, they were left unchecked for 8 years to engage in other very hawkish festivities under the former failed regime in the US.



Again here. You are right. Nothing has changed since Trump took office. Still, as Trump said at the time, a succession of previous Presidents successfully did nothing, whereas Trump is prepared to risk failure to achieve something.



Obama's deal was the worst deal made in history - it even made Chamberlain's capitulation look astute. It fast tracked Iran's nuclear ambitions and was a deal we now know they were not adhering to, but, even if they were, nuclear weapons were on their radar. And while Germany and other nations are helping Russia's ally, once again, Trump is right. A nuclear Iran is an Obama catastrophe. The USA should not be going it alone because the western nations trying to ensure a nuclear Iran should not be trying to commit suicide, but, it is what it is.

You grade him an F yet he is lightyears ahead of the previous guy and still better than any alternative on the horizon from either party.

And I say this as the guy who is extremely annoyed that under Trump's tenure the free world is becoming extinct.

The west is dead. We may as well accept it and prepare for the pleasantries to come.


To sum it up:
China: - Obama did nothing = Horrible president.
So Trump saves the day by cutting off the nose (farmers, etc) to spite the face (China).

NK: Obama did nothing = Horrible president
So Trump almost starts a war, "saves us" and becomes chummy with Lil' Kim, and now Lil' Kim gets pissed and is launching missiles again as Trump grins about it = Wonderful Pres.

Iran: Obama cuts a deal along with other partners to at least try to stave off a nuclear Iran - no matter "how bad" = Horrible President
Trump saves the day by walking away and letting Iran get back to business.

I can hardly wait to see how Russia fares under Trump's "Walk Away" foreign policy!!
Leon On about 1 hour ago




San Diego, California
#9New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 15:01:06
@bob_the_fisherman Said

It's true that China have been allowed to manipulate trade for far too long, and I agree with you that they are engaging in extremely dodgy practices and need to be dealt with. It's just that the US should not be going it alone. And of course, they were left unchecked for 8 years to engage in other very hawkish festivities under the former failed regime in the US.



Again here. You are right. Nothing has changed since Trump took office. Still, as Trump said at the time, a succession of previous Presidents successfully did nothing, whereas Trump is prepared to risk failure to achieve something.



Obama's deal was the worst deal made in history - it even made Chamberlain's capitulation look astute. It fast tracked Iran's nuclear ambitions and was a deal we now know they were not adhering to, but, even if they were, nuclear weapons were on their radar. And while Germany and other nations are helping Russia's ally, once again, Trump is right. A nuclear Iran is an Obama catastrophe. The USA should not be going it alone because the western nations trying to ensure a nuclear Iran should not be trying to commit suicide, but, it is what it is.

You grade him an F yet he is lightyears ahead of the previous guy and still better than any alternative on the horizon from either party.

And I say this as the guy who is extremely annoyed that under Trump's tenure the free world is becoming extinct.

The west is dead. We may as well accept it and prepare for the pleasantries to come.


Point is, he was supposed to be stellar deal maker. I don’t see any deals here, do you?

Unless you count dropping out of deals to be that. But my two year old can do that (and does).
Jennifer1984 On about 5 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#10New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 16:58:27
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I know how you feel there Jen. There is no excuse for the democratic will of the people being overruled. None. Nada. That is why Borry must get Brexit done, deal or no deal.



Ahhhhhhh, so when "The Will of the People" suits you, it's ok to go ahead, but "The People" didn't vote Johnson into office.

He is unelected by a majority of the electorate so the will of the people has not been met.

When May resigned, a General Election should have been called. But faced with the certainty of the Conservatives being thrown out of office, that hasn't happened.

No General Election, no mandate. Johnson has no mandate from the people to take Britain out of the EU and therefore until an election is called, carried out and a democratically elected Prime Minister installed in Office then a National Government (look it up, it's allowed by Parliamentary Rules) should be formed to run the country and take decisions in the interest of the nation.

But no Bob.... that wouldn't suit your agenda. Rather than an election that reflects the "Will of the People" in 2019, you will cling to a corrupt, criminal coup d'etat from 2016 and give it a veneer of respectability it isn't entitled to.

But let's not stray off topic. This is a thread about Trump and goodness knows, there's plenty of material there to get our teeth into.
Jennifer1984 On about 5 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 17:14:28
@Leon Said

Point is, he was supposed to be stellar deal maker. I don’t see any deals here, do you?

Unless you count dropping out of deals to be that. But my two year old can do that (and does).



Trump is a businessman and conducts himself like one. But being a Head of State requires Statesmanlike qualities and Trump hasn't got a single one to call on.

Another thing, in order to be a successful statesman, a President should surround himself with good advisers and not only have them there to advise him, but he must also listen to them. Neither of these seems to be the case from where I sit.

He makes enemies and considers it a virtue, presumably because he thinks of 'deals' as things to be won and a profit made from them. But the art of diplomacy often calls for making compromises and "giving something to get something"..... giving the other side the feeling that they've come away from the table with something they can sell back to their own people. Trump tries to grind the other side into the ground leaving them humiliated and defeated. And that is only going to piss the other side off.

He should be making N Korea and Iran think that giving up their nuclear programme is a good thing. As things stand he is only making them want nukes all the more.

You can't blame Obama every time your own policies fail. It's transparently false, fools nobody and makes you look like a petulant child. He has to "own" the current situation.

When he took office (I won't say "elected" ) he took responsibility for the foreign affairs situation as it stood. It became HIS football. He told the American people that if given power he would resolve those issues. He can't then say it's all the other guy's fault nearly four years later.

Trump is a vain, narcissistic arrogant fool, out of his depth, promoted beyond his abilities and he is not making America "Great Again" rather he is dragging it down into a mess of his making.

The sooner America wakes up to his maladministration and votes him out of office the better
bob_the_fisherman On November 15, 2019
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#12New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 20:38:22
@Jennifer1984 Said

Ahhhhhhh, so when "The Will of the People" suits you, it's ok to go ahead, but "The People" didn't vote Johnson into office.

He is unelected by a majority of the electorate so the will of the people has not been met.

When May resigned, a General Election should have been called. But faced with the certainty of the Conservatives being thrown out of office, that hasn't happened.

No General Election, no mandate. Johnson has no mandate from the people to take Britain out of the EU and therefore until an election is called, carried out and a democratically elected Prime Minister installed in Office then a National Government (look it up, it's allowed by Parliamentary Rules) should be formed to run the country and take decisions in the interest of the nation.

But no Bob.... that wouldn't suit your agenda. Rather than an election that reflects the "Will of the People" in 2019, you will cling to a corrupt, criminal coup d'etat from 2016 and give it a veneer of respectability it isn't entitled to.

But let's not stray off topic. This is a thread about Trump and goodness knows, there's plenty of material there to get our teeth into.



People voted Brexit specifically, therefore, Brexit must happen according to your attempts to argue here.
bob_the_fisherman On November 15, 2019
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#13New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 20:47:28
@mrmhead Said

To sum it up:
China: - Obama did nothing = Horrible president.


He didn't do nothing. He sat back and watched as China became a major player in my region of the world, bought politicians, loaned money to smaller countries then bought their infrastructure, created and armed man made Islands, manipulated currency markets, stole intellectual property and acted as a rogue state while America kept heading into bankruptcy.

@mrmhead Said
So Trump saves the day by cutting off the nose (farmers, etc) to spite the face (China).


Not meaning to be rude, but this is the kind of dribble I expect to see coming from AOC or anyone else who can't think for themselves.


@mrmhead Said

NK: Obama did nothing = Horrible president
So Trump almost starts a war, "saves us" and becomes chummy with Lil' Kim, and now Lil' Kim gets pissed and is launching missiles again as Trump grins about it = Wonderful Pres.


Did I say Trump was "wonderful"? No. I said at least he tried something.

I know the frauds in the media didn't tell you this, but Trump accepted the possibility of failure from the start, but said there's no harm in trying.

@mrmhead Said
Iran: Obama cuts a deal along with other partners to at least try to stave off a nuclear Iran - no matter "how bad" = Horrible President




Obama does a deal that would make Iran a nuclear power within a few years and you say the deal was to make Iran not a nuclear power. Hilarious.



@mrmhead Said
I can hardly wait to see how Russia fares under Trump's "Walk Away" foreign policy!!


Which American President told Medvedev he could do more to help Vladimir in his second term?
bob_the_fisherman On November 15, 2019
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#14New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 20:49:02
@Leon Said

Point is, he was supposed to be stellar deal maker. I don’t see any deals here, do you?

Unless you count dropping out of deals to be that. But my two year old can do that (and does).


Do you think a deal should be done just because Trump walks in the room?
Leon On about 1 hour ago




San Diego, California
#15New Post! Aug 06, 2019 @ 21:01:04
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Do you think a deal should be done just because Trump walks in the room?


No, especially now. But it was the promise he made to American voters. I’d venture to say it was the main reason he was voted in.
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