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rosexthorn On July 30, 2022




Winnipeg, Canada
#61New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 14:50:28
@offbeat Said

if the suicidal person is constantly suffering with mental problems ...depression ,hopelessness etc ,and if his/her friends and family know this, then it might possibly be argued that rather than the suicide being selfish it is in fact those people around him/her who are selfish for expecting him/her to carry on suffering for them.


Triple Ditto on this comment. Very well stated as this is my opinion on the dime.. Kudos, finally someone has really seen both sides of this problem. Which is more selfish? Your comment is right on the mark.

Sorry for sidetracking Silly_Me!
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#62New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 14:54:59
@chisa96 Said

No, it's not like that. That's a mess in a way that I wouldn't even think legal. People have to be qualified here, but the system is too overwhelmed and under resourced to sufficiently help people.



i seriously cant see how it is legal- to be a counsellor they have to train to the level i am so how they can be called a counsellor. these peolpe really are no more than volunteers much like Samaritans (good for them- im not knowcking them of course, thye are a valuabel service) im just mad that a doctor would make a referral to these IAPTs instead of preoper counsellors. sorry, rant over! they are overwhelmed here too thats why therer are waiting lists which are not fair on the clients
rosexthorn On July 30, 2022




Winnipeg, Canada
#63New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 14:58:50
@chisa96 Said

I think people just need to assume this because they can't accept the view that it is selfish, that somebody who actually understands the subject could come to that conclusion too. I'm not saying that they're not going through anything incredibly difficult; I'm just saying that it's selfish to stop trying to deal with those issues alive and instead traumatizing your children when you are the person that is supposed to protect them from things like that. There's no way around it; it's f***ing selfish. It can be justified in some cases, but that doesn't change it. You are leaving your children to suffer in your stead.

And for the record, I've experienced this god-awful subject from every conceivable f***ing angle. It's still selfish to leave behind your children, no matter what you are suffering yourself.


If there are children involved I would expect the adults to explain fully what torment that the person that did this act was in fully and not make it out as an abandonment but rather an act of suffering of another person they love. All has to be carefully explained or the children will never truly understand the anguish of what a mental crisis and how truly debilitating and destructive this illness can be and to explain to the child [when they can understand that is] that the person was suffering and not selfish in the least and keep on reinforcing to the child/ren that the said person did love them above all things but was suffering.
chisa96 On December 29, 2014
Supreme Goddess





Out in Nature, Wisconsin
#64New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 14:59:09
@Sparklegirl Said

i seriously cant see how it is legal- to be a counsellor they have to train to the level i am so how they can be called a counsellor. these peolpe really are no more than volunteers much like Samaritans (good for them- im not knowcking them of course, thye are a valuabel service) im just mad that a doctor would make a referral to these IAPTs instead of preoper counsellors. sorry, rant over! they are overwhelmed here too thats why therer are waiting lists which are not fair on the clients



Perhaps they refer people to these volunteers as a solution to the mental health system being so overwhelmed? That would be my best guess, but there just has to be a better solution than that.
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#65New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 15:02:01
@chisa96 Said

Perhaps they refer people to these volunteers as a solution to the mental health system being so overwhelmed? That would be my best guess, but there just has to be a better solution than that.



yeah its free for the client thats why they refer them there and it is to ease the strain but what angers me in the worst way possible is the fact that the patients are not TOLD that they are what i call 'fake' counsellors- thye beleive them to be the real deal which to me is decieving them
chisa96 On December 29, 2014
Supreme Goddess





Out in Nature, Wisconsin
#66New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 15:02:46
@rosexthorn Said

If there are children involved I would expect the adults to explain fully what torment that the person that did this act was in fully and not make it out as an abandonment but rather an act of suffering of another person they love. All has to be carefully explained or the children will never truly understand the anguish of what a mental crisis and how truly debilitating and destructive this illness can be and to explain to the child [when they can understand that is] that the person was suffering and not selfish in the least and keep on reinforcing to the child/ren that the said person did love them above all things but was suffering.



Yeah, that's not going to fix it. This child will still have to grow up with a parent that killed themself. And then what of those whose children are the ones to actually find them hanging or lying dead? There is no way of explaining these things that is going to make it any better for these kids.

When you've talked to a child in this situation, then you will understand how a person can such a seemingly callous claim about the parent that leaves them that way.
chisa96 On December 29, 2014
Supreme Goddess





Out in Nature, Wisconsin
#67New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 15:03:58
@Sparklegirl Said

yeah its free for the client thats why they refer them there and it is to ease the strain but what angers me in the worst way possible is the fact that the patients are not TOLD that they are what i call 'fake' counsellors- thye beleive them to be the real deal which to me is decieving them



Yeah, I agree. That just doesn't sound right at all. I can't believe that's legal there.
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#68New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 15:06:06
@chisa96 Said

Yeah, I agree. That just doesn't sound right at all. I can't believe that's legal there.



neither can i- wasnt until recently i knew of this issue. makes me wonder just how many else actually know the truth
rosexthorn On July 30, 2022




Winnipeg, Canada
#69New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 16:21:50
@chisa96 Said

Yeah, that's not going to fix it. This child will still have to grow up with a parent that killed themself. And then what of those whose children are the ones to actually find them hanging or lying dead? There is no way of explaining these things that is going to make it any better for these kids.



When you've talked to a child in this situation, then you will understand how a person can such a seemingly callous claim about the parent that leaves them that way.


I have a first hand experience with this type of situation.

My Uncle hung himself in the basement while his wife and boys were at a hockey game and when they came home the sons found him. Yes, it was and still is very traumatic for the boys, but my aunt took the time and so did the counselors to fully explain that he was very, very ill. This did not diminish their pain but gave them an understanding of where their father was mentally to have to have made such a permanent decision.
chisa96 On December 29, 2014
Supreme Goddess





Out in Nature, Wisconsin
#70New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 16:24:27
That's all fine. My view stands.
Grasshopper On January 11, 2023
Just me.





Fort Collins, Colorado
#71New Post! Oct 15, 2011 @ 22:25:02
I think every single person in this site/world, at one point in their lives at least, had thoughts of suicide.

So I think the best way to help them is not telling them you went through it too, but to let them know you'll listen and not just give advice, such as "it gets better" or "It's only temporary" Because it may not be. We all have diferent life stories, and diferent ways in dealing with problems.
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