Stolen Democracy?

@Marcussextus Said

I've always voted Independent, but as I've mostly resided in Lib' "safe seats" it's been a wasted effort, but I live in hope.
There is a simple way to eradicate the two partys, if enough voters just PUT THE PARTYS LAST!

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Huh... I'm not meaning to stalk you around the forums here mate, but I agree. I always put the major parties last. I used to put them equal last until the Labourals conspired to make that vote illegitimate about a decade ago. Too many people had cottoned onto the idea of putting them equal last, and it was starting to effect their hold on this illegitimate "two party" system...

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Pretty much. I think that people who always vote for a particular party are in some respects more of a problem than people who vote for tangential things like genitals or skin colour. At least the latter is open to voting a different way, even if the reason is kind of dumb.

@restoreone Said

In the first Obama election the day after I got in to my office a little early. A coworker and friend of mine was sitting in the break room all smiles. I ask why he turned to me and Said for the first ever I can now say I am telling the truth to my son "you can be anything you want to be including POUS when you grow up and mean it!!
Many American has been told this as they grow up.

What so wrong with wanting and be able to say this with truth TO your child.

@shinobinoz Said

Not really. The other is worse IMHO. That is based on something that is beyonds one's control. Those that vote party line are supporting the party platform. Would be nice to vote on the issues the candidates favor but they will swing to the more or less extreme in the primary & then back more or less moderate for the general election.

@Marcussextus Said

Yeah, me too, that really sucked!
Now they want to redo the rules for the Senate too, they were happy enough with them while no-one realised they were using them that way themselves but as soon as "ordinary" people began to play their sneaky games it was suddenly a "problem", god forfend that non-party members get near their Golden Trough!

@bob_the_fisherman Said

I am only speaking in an Australian context. And yes, I agree that voting for a particular trait is stupid (race, genitalia etc), I only say it is preferable because it at least gives the hope that the entrenched retardation of current voting patterns might change by accident. People who always vote for one of the major parties ensure that those major parties do not need to represent the people that voted for them.

@Marcussextus Said

Here's an excellent article on that very point.

Political reality in Oz

@bob_the_fisherman Said

But, at election time, the people will still vote for these same despised politicians and their politically corrupt, morally bankrupt parties.

@Marcussextus Said

This sums it up pretty well IMO:

@bob_the_fisherman Said

I am only speaking in an Australian context. And yes, I agree that voting for a particular trait is stupid (race, genitalia etc), I only say it is preferable because it at least gives the hope that the entrenched retardation of current voting patterns might change by accident. People who always vote for one of the major parties ensure that those major parties do not need to represent the people that voted for them.

@shinobinoz Said

I can see that partially. The parties however would not exist long if they did not really represent them don't you think?

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Sadly, no. The overwhelming majority of Australians, both anecdotally and from various polls, did not want Australia to sell of its major assets (to pick one obvious example). Most people recognised that it would be bad (which it has been). However, both major parties have flogged off everything that they legally can, and, it has screwed us very badly. Nonetheless, the people kept voting for them all the way through. That is just one example.

Sadly, people have bought the idea that only the major parties can lead us (which, is partially true in that the system is so complex it now requires a major political machine to run it). However, it is not really the politicians running the machine, it is the people behind it that run it for the most part. Also, the system could be simplified, and made more accessible and less corrupt. And, the system could reflect more of the will of the people as I see it (although, I happily admit that I am a pessimist when it comes to these types of issues).

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Yeah, pretty much. The sad irony of it all is that we have created such a complex system, economically and politically, at both a state and global level, that the average Joe could not comprehend, let alone be effective within that system. The problem though, is that people do not perceive that to be a problem.

Ideally, what is required is that enough people vote for non mainstream parties that those parties actually wake up to the fact that we exist, have interests, and expect those interests to be represented.

There are too many dumb and obviously wrong things people take for granted that are just plain bad - like that a consumption lead economy is good. That a share market is good. That ever increasing company profit is "good for the shareholders" ergo good for the average person who has shares. That privatisation is good. That politicians act in our best interest, or tell the truth about major issues, and so on.

As an aside, it was interesting to see someone on ABC TV recently talking of the push for a referendum calling for Indigenous people to be recognised in our Constitution. The political consensus of today is that the vote should be "delayed" because "we have not created enough awareness of the issue."

What this really means is, the propaganda campaign has not yet been effective. I do not have an opinion on whether Indigenous people should be recognised in the Constitution or not, but I certainly have an opinion on such blatant statements regarding the effectiveness of propaganda being not only made on national TV, but on them being allowed to stand unchallenged. When this is considered legitimate, I think our democracy is dead.