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Skinning Animals Alive

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arcades On August 08, 2013




Northbay, Canada
#16New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 14:39:54
@Tako_400 Said

I don't think the animal died for us or for the meat. I don't think it gave us it's life. I think we just took it.



Of corse we just took it but that's what animals are partly here for.

Humans are OMNIVORES, we have evolved to be able to eat meat and vegitation.

We are no more at fault for eating meat then any other meat eating animal.

Humans are just evolved mammals after all and were still part of the food chain.

But you can have meat without causing the animal any suffering.

It's the pain and discomfort some companies put animals through that I have a problem with.

To deny meat is to deny part of your humanity.
2nd_Evil_Head On March 24, 2015




Elmira,
#17New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 14:56:54
OK, I'm speaking as a trapper, which I know many people have a problem with, but I watched the video, and I have to say that I can't think of anything more cruel than that. Skinning an animal alive is just sick, and there is no reason for it at all. Any claim that the fur is better "fresh" is total bulls***, and these sickos weren't practicing any kind of proper fur handling. There was no respect, or reverence shown for these animals at all.

I don't know if it's like that everywhere in China, I've never been there, but I do know that if I ever saw anyone doing that here, they'd get a skinning knife in the ribs.
ADUB87 On January 11, 2010

Deleted



Inside a triangle, Bermuda
#18New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 15:00:05
We live in a cruel sadistic world unfortunately, The chinese government shoot you in the back of the head if your found with over 300$ of drugs, They are evil communists who make women have abortions on a daily basis because of the bulging population, God love us all if america ever starts a war with them or russia
Tako_400 On April 19, 2010
Keep Ya' Head Up


Deleted



Beirut, Lebanon
#19New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 15:22:16
@arcades Said

Of corse we just took it but that's what animals are partly here for.

Humans are OMNIVORES, we have evolved to be able to eat meat and vegitation.

We are no more at fault for eating meat then any other meat eating animal.

Humans are just evolved mammals after all and were still part of the food chain.

But you can have meat without causing the animal any suffering.

It's the pain and discomfort some companies put animals through that I have a problem with.

To deny meat is to deny part of your humanity.


You are taking the animal's life away. You are ceasing its existence. Yes, it is nature to eat each other. I won't refer to the food chain, for that is what we've created. It does not carry absolute truth. But I will agree because other animals eat each other, and they are also part of nature. So if they can do it, why can't we? But my main point here is that death is much worse than suffering. We kill things that probably cannot conceive of the state of suffering. To the animals, it's either live or die. There is no suffering. We're killing these animals and they gave us no permission whatsoever. It's wrong to say that the animal was giving it's life for us to eat meat.
ClaymorePrincess On December 18, 2009




, United Kingdom
#20New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 15:38:36
@Tako_400 Said

You are taking the animal's life away. You are ceasing its existence. Yes, it is nature to eat each other. I won't refer to the food chain, for that is what we've created. It does not carry absolute truth. But I will agree because other animals eat each other, and they are also part of nature. So if they can do it, why can't we? But my main point here is that death is much worse than suffering. We kill things that probably cannot conceive of the state of suffering. To the animals, it's either live or die. There is no suffering. We're killing these animals and they gave us no permission whatsoever. It's wrong to say that the animal was giving it's life for us to eat meat.



I've read through this thread, and this post serves as a good springboard for me to make a few points, so here goes...
There's a huge difference between killing an animal humanely (read as: quickly, with no/minimal pain)for food, whether the by-products are used for other things or not, and skinning an animal alive, causing extreme pain to it. Death can be an instantaneous event, skinning is not, and any species of animal with a developed nervous system will pain, and this indeed equates to it suffering.
I agree that it's wrong to say an animal gives it's life for us to eat the meat, and that they don't give us permission to do so, but neither does the antelope give a lion permission. In nature there are carnivores, herbivores, and omnivores, predators and prey...humans are physiologically designed to be omnivores, so part of our make-up is to eat meat, although these days very few of us do the actual killing due to technological and societal advance.
If need be, I could kill my own food, skin it, butcher it, cook and eat it, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to skin an animal alive, or indeed watch a piece of film showing it. IMO, you just can't compare humane slaughter with wanton cruelty.
Tako_400 On April 19, 2010
Keep Ya' Head Up


Deleted



Beirut, Lebanon
#21New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 17:59:28
@ClaymorePrincess Said

I've read through this thread, and this post serves as a good springboard for me to make a few points, so here goes...
There's a huge difference between killing an animal humanely (read as: quickly, with no/minimal pain)for food, whether the by-products are used for other things or not, and skinning an animal alive, causing extreme pain to it. Death can be an instantaneous event, skinning is not, and any species of animal with a developed nervous system will pain, and this indeed equates to it suffering.
I agree that it's wrong to say an animal gives it's life for us to eat the meat, and that they don't give us permission to do so, but neither does the antelope give a lion permission. In nature there are carnivores, herbivores, and omnivores, predators and prey...humans are physiologically designed to be omnivores, so part of our make-up is to eat meat, although these days very few of us do the actual killing due to technological and societal advance.
If need be, I could kill my own food, skin it, butcher it, cook and eat it, but I don't think I could ever bring myself to skin an animal alive, or indeed watch a piece of film showing it. IMO, you just can't compare humane slaughter with wanton cruelty.


You make some very good points. But I was not comparing the two. For one, I agree with one while not the other. You are right that animals feel pain which then equates to suffering, but it's probable that animals do not comprehend the difference between a quick death and suffering. They only know the difference between death and life. And it is also irrelevant whether animals kill each other or not. The fact is that we're doing it to them, and killing an animal is killing an animal no matter what the reason is.
ClaymorePrincess On December 18, 2009




, United Kingdom
#22New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 18:26:14
@Tako_400 Said

You make some very good points. But I was not comparing the two. For one, I agree with one while not the other. You are right that animals feel pain which then equates to suffering, but it's probable that animals do not comprehend the difference between a quick death and suffering. They only know the difference between death and life. And it is also irrelevant whether animals kill each other or not. The fact is that we're doing it to them, and killing an animal is killing an animal no matter what the reason is.



I have to disagree when you say it's probable that animals do not comprehend the difference between a quick death and suffering. Having been involved in farming, and animal rescue, I've seen enough to know that animals do indeed comprehend suffering. Obviously this is more about mammals, being the most usual meat source for humans, but suffering can be measured physically, mentally, and emotionally. Granted, the ones we tend to eat may not be able to rationalize suffering in a word, but they most certainly can understand it on a level of understanding that something is wrong, and that something is going on that isn't right for them. As far as killing an animal being killing an animal, I agree, we are doing it to them, but let's not forget, we're animals too, and as such are naturally part of the food chain. I can't begin to condone any act against an animal which causes unnecessary pain, suffering, or distress, but at the same time, I can't condemn any humane killing of an animal for food, if that all makes sense.
Kristy69 On September 14, 2014
Carly's Mommy





Underneath the Cyanide Sun....
#23New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 18:55:25
@Tako_400 Said

I don't think the animal died for us or for the meat. I don't think it gave us it's life. I think we just took it.


Either way it's dead. It died in order to feed someone. So why waste it? Would you rather it die for no reason?

Native Americans usd every part of the animal out of respect; as not to waste it's body.
Tako_400 On April 19, 2010
Keep Ya' Head Up


Deleted



Beirut, Lebanon
#24New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 19:44:55
@ClaymorePrincess Said

I have to disagree when you say it's probable that animals do not comprehend the difference between a quick death and suffering. Having been involved in farming, and animal rescue, I've seen enough to know that animals do indeed comprehend suffering. Obviously this is more about mammals, being the most usual meat source for humans, but suffering can be measured physically, mentally, and emotionally. Granted, the ones we tend to eat may not be able to rationalize suffering in a word, but they most certainly can understand it on a level of understanding that something is wrong, and that something is going on that isn't right for them. As far as killing an animal being killing an animal, I agree, we are doing it to them, but let's not forget, we're animals too, and as such are naturally part of the food chain. I can't begin to condone any act against an animal which causes unnecessary pain, suffering, or distress, but at the same time, I can't condemn any humane killing of an animal for food, if that all makes sense.


I agree with you again on your second point. I don't think you quite understood my first one. Yes, animals can understand when something is wrong. Yes, they can not like something. Yes, they can feel it physically, mentally, and emotionally (I'm not entirely sure, but let's assume). But that still isn't a reason as to how they could understand the difference between a quick death and suffering. Yes, they suffer, but do they conceive of it as suffering? Probably not. They see it as pain or something they don't like, as you mentioned. So therefore they still cannot know the difference between suffering and dying instantly. It's all the same to them. They are dying or "suffering" in both cases.
Tako_400 On April 19, 2010
Keep Ya' Head Up


Deleted



Beirut, Lebanon
#25New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 19:47:28
@Kristy69 Said

Either way it's dead. It died in order to feed someone. So why waste it? Would you rather it die for no reason?

Native Americans usd every part of the animal out of respect; as not to waste it's body.



I would rather it didn't die at all. But then again, I love meat. So the best I can do is resort to the "they do, so I can do it" argument.
Kristy69 On September 14, 2014
Carly's Mommy





Underneath the Cyanide Sun....
#26New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 19:49:48
@Tako_400 Said

I would rather it didn't die at all. But then again, I love meat. So the best I can do is resort to the "they do, so I can do it" argument.


In a perfect world, meat would grow on trees and animals wouldn't have to die.

But that's not reality.

The world is cruel, unfortunately.
Tako_400 On April 19, 2010
Keep Ya' Head Up


Deleted



Beirut, Lebanon
#27New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 19:51:22
@Kristy69 Said

In a perfect world, meat would grow on trees and animals wouldn't have to die.

But that's not reality.

The world is cruel, unfortunately.



That comes down to morals. Some people don't give a flying f*** about whether it's cruel or not. They just want meat. So that's kinda your opinion.
Kristy69 On September 14, 2014
Carly's Mommy





Underneath the Cyanide Sun....
#28New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 19:52:44
@Tako_400 Said

That comes down to morals. Some people don't give a flying f*** about whether it's cruel or not. They just want meat. So that's kinda your opinion.


My moral is don't let something die in vain.
arcades On August 08, 2013




Northbay, Canada
#29New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 21:44:35
@Tako_400 Said

You are taking the animal's life away. You are ceasing its existence. Yes, it is nature to eat each other. I won't refer to the food chain, for that is what we've created. It does not carry absolute truth. But I will agree because other animals eat each other, and they are also part of nature. So if they can do it, why can't we? But my main point here is that death is much worse than suffering. We kill things that probably cannot conceive of the state of suffering. To the animals, it's either live or die. There is no suffering. We're killing these animals and they gave us no permission whatsoever. It's wrong to say that the animal was giving it's life for us to eat meat.



Then where do you draw the line?

Is a worm or an insect not an animal?

Should we start making sure we don't step on any bugs wherever we walk?

Also it depends on your belief of death.

I don't think death is the end for any life form, you don't die, you move on or get reincarnated.
ClaymorePrincess On December 18, 2009




, United Kingdom
#30New Post! Oct 15, 2009 @ 21:58:25
@Tako_400 Said

I agree with you again on your second point. I don't think you quite understood my first one. Yes, animals can understand when something is wrong. Yes, they can not like something. Yes, they can feel it physically, mentally, and emotionally (I'm not entirely sure, but let's assume). But that still isn't a reason as to how they could understand the difference between a quick death and suffering. Yes, they suffer, but do they conceive of it as suffering? Probably not. They see it as pain or something they don't like, as you mentioned. So therefore they still cannot know the difference between suffering and dying instantly. It's all the same to them. They are dying or "suffering" in both cases.



I think we're perhaps saying similar things, just in different ways really, the word 'suffering' being the one where the personal perception of the rationalization of the pain/distress/(arguably) suffering becomes the key.
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