Shoehorning and Circles in religion - Join The Conversation @ The Forum Site

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Sep 01, 2016 @ 12:46:35

Religion does a lot of shoehorning, to suit themselves, and also it goes around in a loop till people say shut the F up and all that, even internally it can cause a religion to lose members because they get sick of all the banter.

It will go around in circles till it runs out of puff over it and then adapts and accepts due to waving the white flag, over it and then waits for the next issue to come along.

Social Change Process:

1. Opposes
2. Shoehorning on end-times and internal fighing and debate and members leave because get tired of it.
3. Goes in Circles with first two.
4. Accepts to just keep from losing members, a survival tactic.
5. Changes policies
6. Waits for the next change they don't like and it starts again.

0

Edited: September 01, 2016 @ 12:51

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#2

Oct 17, 2016 @ 20:57:34

No insitution will continue to exist
if it does not adapt to prevailing winds.

Know when to hold 'em, stand fast ----
and know when to fold 'em!! Or at least compromise.

That's a wise business/institutional move.

0

Edited: October 17, 2016 @ 20:58

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#3

Oct 17, 2016 @ 20:59:35

Hey! What happened to my avii?

0

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#4

Oct 17, 2016 @ 21:47:59

Maybe 'shoehorning' is about narrow-minded religious leaders, rather than 'religion' overall, or 'all' religious leaders?

Here's more insight into religious leaders, 'at least' according to the Word! [Matthew 23:1-12]:

1) Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2) "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3) So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not "do" what they do, for they do not practise what they preach.
4) They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5) Everything they do is done for men to see. They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6) they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7) they love to be greeted in the marketplace and to have men call them 'Rabbi'.
8) But you are not to be called 'Rabbi' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9) And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10)Nor do you want to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher -- the Christ!
11)The greatest among you will be your servant.
12)For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

*********************************************
--The Pharisees' traditions and their interpretations/applications of the laws had become as important to them as God's law itself. Their laws were not 'all' bad. Some were beneeficial. The problem arose when the religious leaders:
a) took man-made rules as seriously as God's law,
b) told the people to obey these rules but did not do so themselves, and
c) obeyed the rules but 'not' to honor God, just to make themselves look good.

Jesus did not usually condemn 'what' the Pharisees taught; but, he 'did' condemn them for what they were -- hypocrites.

Phy-lac-ter-ies were little boxes containing scripture verses.
Very religious people wore them on their forehead and arms in order to obey Deuteronomy 6:8 and Exodus 13:9, 16. But .. the phylacteries had become more important (for the status that they gave) ---than for the truth they contained.

--Jesus again exposed the hypocritical attitudes of the religious leaders. They knew the Scriptures, but did not live by them. They didn't care about 'being' holy, just 'looking' holy in order to receive the people's admiration and praise. Today, like the Pharisees, many people who know the Word do not let it change their lives. They 'say' they follow Jesus, but they do not live by His standards of love. People who live this way are hypocrites. We must make sure that our actions match our beliefs.

--People desire positions of leadership not only in business but also in the church. It is dangerous when love for the position grows stronger than loyalty to God. This is what happened to the Pharisees and teachers of the law.

Jesus is not against all leadership ...we do need Christian leaders
...but He is against leadership that serves itself rather than others.

--Jesus challenged society's norms. To him, greatness comes from serving -- giving of yourself to help God, to help others. Service keeps us aware of others' needs, and it stops us from focusing only on ourselves. Jesus came as a servant. What kind of greatness do you seek?

--------continued next post----------

0

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#5

Oct 18, 2016 @ 01:01:01

[More on shoehorning and/or hypocritical religious leaders:

Matthew 23:13-36

13)"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces.
14) You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
15) Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing;
16) but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17) You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18) You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.
19) You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20) Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21) And he who swears by the temple - swears by 'it' and by the one who dwells in it.
22) And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices (mint, dill and cummin). But you have neglected the more important matters of the law (justice, mercy and faithfulness). You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24) You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26) Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28) In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous
-but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30) And you say 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31) So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32) Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33) You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34) Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35) And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah (son of Berekiah) -whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36) I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation."

********************************************************************

--Being a religious leader in Jerusalem was very different from being a pastor in a secular society today. Israel's history, culture and daily life centered around its relationship with God. The religious leaders were the best known, most powerful, and most respected of all leaders. Jesus made these stinging accusations because the leaders' hunger for more power, money and status had made them lose sight of God, and their blindness was spreading to the whole nation.
--The Pharisee converts were attracted to Pharisaism, not to God. By getting caught up in the details of their additional laws and regulations, they completely missed God --to whom the laws pointed. A religion of deeds puts pressure on people to surpass others in what they know and do. Thus, a hypocritical teacher was likely to have students who were even more hypocritical. We must make sure we are not creating Pharisees by emphasizing outward obedience at the expense of inner renewal.
--It is possible to obey the details of the laws but still be disobedient in our general behavior. For example, we could be very precise and faithful about giving 10 percent of our money to God, but refuse to give one minute of our time in helping others. Tithing is important, but giving a tithe does not exempt us from fulfilling God's other directives.
--The Pharisees strained their water so they would not accidentally swallow a gnat --an unclean insect according to the law. Meticulous about the details of ceremonial cleanliness, they nevertheless had lost their perspective on inner purity. Ceremonially clean on the outside, yet they had corrupt hearts.
--Jesus condemned the Pharisees and religious leaders for outwardly appearing saintly and holy but inwardly remaining full of corruption and greed. Living our Christianity merely as a show for others is like washing a cup on the outside only. When we are clean on the inside, our cleanliness on the outside won't be a sham.
--These prophets, wise men, and teachers were probably leaders in the early church who were persecuted, scourged, and killed, as Jesus predicted. The people of Jesus' generation said they would not act as their fathers did in killing the prophets whom God had sent to them; but, they were about to kill the Messiah himself and his faithful followers. Thus, they would become guilty of all the righteous blood shed through the centuries.
--Jesus gives a brief history of of Old Testament martyrdom here.
Abel was the first martyr (Genesis 4).
Zechariah was the last mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, which ended with 2 Chronicles.
Zechariah is a classic example of a man of God ..who was killed ..by those who claimed to be God's people (see 2 Chronicles 24:20,2).

0

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#6

Oct 18, 2016 @ 04:34:13

@DuLu Said

[More on shoehorning and/or hypocritical religious leaders:

Matthew 23:13-36

13)"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!
You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces.
14) You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
15) Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing;
16) but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17) You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18) You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.
19) You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20) Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21) And he who swears by the temple - swears by 'it' and by the one who dwells in it.
22) And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices (mint, dill and cummin). But you have neglected the more important matters of the law (justice, mercy and faithfulness). You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24) You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26) Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28) In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous
-but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29) Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30) And you say 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31) So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32) Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33) You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34) Therefore, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35) And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah (son of Berekiah) -whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36) I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation."

********************************************************************

--Being a religious leader in Jerusalem was very different from being a pastor in a secular society today. Israel's history, culture and daily life centered around its relationship with God. The religious leaders were the best known, most powerful, and most respected of all leaders. Jesus made these stinging accusations because the leaders' hunger for more power, money and status had made them lose sight of God, and their blindness was spreading to the whole nation.
--The Pharisee converts were attracted to Pharisaism, not to God. By getting caught up in the details of their additional laws and regulations, they completely missed God --to whom the laws pointed. A religion of deeds puts pressure on people to surpass others in what they know and do. Thus, a hypocritical teacher was likely to have students who were even more hypocritical. We must make sure we are not creating Pharisees by emphasizing outward obedience at the expense of inner renewal.
--It is possible to obey the details of the laws but still be disobedient in our general behavior. For example, we could be very precise and faithful about giving 10 percent of our money to God, but refuse to give one minute of our time in helping others. Tithing is important, but giving a tithe does not exempt us from fulfilling God's other directives.
--The Pharisees strained their water so they would not accidentally swallow a gnat --an unclean insect according to the law. Meticulous about the details of ceremonial cleanliness, they nevertheless had lost their perspective on inner purity. Ceremonially clean on the outside, yet they had corrupt hearts.
--Jesus condemned the Pharisees and religious leaders for outwardly appearing saintly and holy but inwardly remaining full of corruption and greed. Living our Christianity merely as a show for others is like washing a cup on the outside only. When we are clean on the inside, our cleanliness on the outside won't be a sham.
--These prophets, wise men, and teachers were probably leaders in the early church who were persecuted, scourged, and killed, as Jesus predicted. The people of Jesus' generation said they would not act as their fathers did in killing the prophets whom God had sent to them; but, they were about to kill the Messiah himself and his faithful followers. Thus, they would become guilty of all the righteous blood shed through the centuries.
--Jesus gives a brief history of of Old Testament martyrdom here.
Abel was the first martyr (Genesis 4).
Zechariah was the last mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, which ended with 2 Chronicles.
Zechariah is a classic example of a man of God ..who was killed ..by those who claimed to be God's people (see 2 Chronicles 24:20,2).

It's just like having Mad Cornish Biker back..!!

Actually, you make a number of good points, if somebody is really into the Bible in depth and wishes to analyse every nuance of its meaning, that is.

But.... and here's the rub.... do most people really want to find that much meaning in their religion..? For sure, some do. But I think most people have a more simplistic, workaday belief in God and just want to live good, honest lives which are meaningful in a way they can relate to.

For most people who believe in God, it's enough to know that Jesus was a decent man who set a number of good examples for his believers to follow, and did what he did for altruistic reasons. As for the Old Testament, I think that most people are prepared to leave that to the Hebrews who seem to be quite happy with the racist, murderous, homophobic, vain, arrogant, ethnic cleansing, genocidal maniac who calls them the chosen people.

Even when I had belief, which was when I was being terrified, browbeaten and brainwashed by nuns at my Roman Catholic primary school, I thought that my belief in God was my business. Yes, I read the Bible (even at the age of 10 I found it difficult to believe but didn't dare question it at school) and started to think about it. I thought that prayer was personal and private and was none of anybody elses business. I asked myself if I really needed a church. Me and God could get on just fine if I kept it between he and I.

I think most people are like that. They don't want to be battered over the head with the Bible. They can read. They can think. And when they have doubts, they can pray. If God's listening surely he'll answer their prayers and hey, wouldn't his reply be better than a priest's...? You can't do better than personal 1 2 1 communication with the man himself, can you..?

A person's religion should be, in my opinion, a simple relationship which doesn't need analysis of the minutiae of whatever holy book you subscribe to. Just read it and find your own truth.

Live with that and be happy.

0

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#7

Oct 18, 2016 @ 05:22:00

See my (I will try to make them brief) responses in bold:

@Jennifer1984 Said

It's just like having Mad Cornish Biker back..!! I remember him

Actually, you make a number of good points, if somebody is really into the Bible in depth and wishes to analyse every nuance of its meaning, that is. [It's something I'm choosing to do right now, but am not crazy about all the little nuances - they're rather drawn out!]

But.... and here's the rub.... do most people really want to find that much meaning in their religion..? Do most people really need anything for that matter? Breath, food, water -- if they wanna live. The rest is 'wants' if ya wanna get down to the basics.

For sure, some do. But I think most people have a more simplistic, workaday belief in God and just want to live good, honest lives which are meaningful in a way they can relate to. Already have a simplistic belief; searching for 'more knowledge' of the Word!! Sharing as I go!!

For most people who believe in God, it's enough to know that Jesus was a decent man who set a number of good examples for his believers to follow, and did what he did for altruistic reasons. As for the Old Testament, I think that most people are prepared to leave that to the Hebrews who seem to be quite happy with the racist, murderous, homophobic, vain, arrogant, ethnic cleansing, genocidal maniac who calls them the chosen people. Yes, I agree, and I will draw my own conclusions during and 'after' my learning process. As one grows and learns, of course their thoughts/ideas/perceptions are subject to change also!

Even when I had belief, which was when I was being terrified, browbeaten and brainwashed by nuns at my Roman Catholic primary school, I thought that my belief in God was my business. Yes, I read the Bible (even at the age of 10 I found it difficult to believe but didn't dare question it at school) and started to think about it. I thought that prayer was personal and private and was none of anybody elses business. I asked myself if I really needed a church. Me and God could get on just fine if I kept it between he and I. You're not alone in that! Have heard that from many. Thought about having our kids taught in a christian school, but most of my friends and relatives were quick to speak against doing so. But ... several --though not 'christians' --chose to raise their own kids in private christian schools -- not for the 'christian messaage' but ... because of the smaller classroom with more student/teacher time ratio. Interesting, that, don't you think? A true-life, present-day example of hypocrisy?

I think most people are like that. They don't want to be battered over the head with the Bible. They can read. They can think. And when they have doubts, they can pray. If God's listening surely he'll answer their prayers and hey, wouldn't his reply be better than a priest's...? You can't do better than personal 1 2 1 communication with the man himself, can you..? No disagareement there! Knowledge is power, don't you agree? Don't exactly consider wanting to know more regarding what is written ''about that which you have a basic belief in'' -- a weakness, do you?

A person's religion should be, in my opinion, a simple relationship which doesn't need analysis of the minutiae of whatever holy book you subscribe to. Just read it and find your own truth. GMTA!! This is exactly what I'm doing. And, bonus!! I'm sharing as I go!!!!

**Forewarning: one's perceptions of truth may/will change as knowledge or insight is gained - for any subject matter, especially the Bible and religion!

Live with that and be happy. Best advise ever, for anyone. CHOOSE HAPPINESS!

edited to add missing brackets and various other wrong bbcode -DT

0

Edited: October 18, 2016 @ 16:17

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#8

Oct 18, 2016 @ 07:04:50

uh ohhh! Have already requested assistance in fixing whatever happened with my previous post.

Anyway, you also made good points. Jennifer!
I agree with the majority of what you are saying.
Already have basic belief.
Will continue to learn more regarding what is written about 'that which I have a basic belief in' as time, desire and RL allows.

Know exactly what you mean about how certain leaders/teaching of religion can 'turn away' the very people they are trying to draw in.
A classic, present-day example of hypocrisy. Several friends and family were anti-religion, yet sent their kids to private christian schools? To learn more about God and religion? No, that was the by-product. Primarily to take advantage of the smaller student-to-teacher ratio, to enhance general learning provided.

Matthew 13:12: Whoever has, will be given more - and he will have an abundance. But, whoever does not, even what he has (or is striving to have) will be taken from him

@Jennifer1984 Said

It's just like having Mad Cornish Biker back..!!

Actually, you make a number of good points, if somebody is really into the Bible in depth and wishes to analyse every nuance of its meaning, that is.

But.... and here's the rub.... do most people really want to find that much meaning in their religion..? For sure, some do. But I think most people have a more simplistic, workaday belief in God and just want to live good, honest lives which are meaningful in a way they can relate to.

For most people who believe in God, it's enough to know that Jesus was a decent man who set a number of good examples for his believers to follow, and did what he did for altruistic reasons. As for the Old Testament, I think that most people are prepared to leave that to the Hebrews who seem to be quite happy with the racist, murderous, homophobic, vain, arrogant, ethnic cleansing, genocidal maniac who calls them the chosen people.

Even when I had belief, which was when I was being terrified, browbeaten and brainwashed by nuns at my Roman Catholic primary school, I thought that my belief in God was my business. Yes, I read the Bible (even at the age of 10 I found it difficult to believe but didn't dare question it at school) and started to think about it. I thought that prayer was personal and private and was none of anybody elses business. I asked myself if I really needed a church. Me and God could get on just fine if I kept it between he and I.

I think most people are like that. They don't want to be battered over the head with the Bible. They can read. They can think. And when they have doubts, they can pray. If God's listening surely he'll answer their prayers and hey, wouldn't his reply be better than a priest's...? You can't do better than personal 1 2 1 communication with the man himself, can you..?

A person's religion should be, in my opinion, a simple relationship which doesn't need analysis of the minutiae of whatever holy book you subscribe to. Just read it and find your own truth.

Live with that and be happy.

0

Jennifer1984

Returner and proud

Penzance, United Kingdom

#9

Oct 24, 2016 @ 17:48:09

I think we agree on a number of things, and I'm glad to have an exchange with you on those things we differ on. I think you speak a lot of sense and I can see where you are coming from, which is why I would value your opinion on the following:

Bakers Lose Their Appeal Over Gay Cake

Now, there are a number of issues here and I'll make a couple of salient points here for you to consider:

We have anti-discrimination law here in UK and these bakers fell foul of that because they specifically refused to give their services on the grounds of what was to them, a matter of religious belief, but was interpreted in law as a discriminatory act.

Had they made an excuse - for example, if they had said their order books were full and they couldn't take any more orders - there would have been no case to answer. But why should they have to tell a lie in order to avoid prosecution?

Had the aggrieved customer simply accepted the situation and taken his business somewhere else, it wouldn't have come to this. But then, why should he put up with being discriminated against..?

And then we come to, what is in my mind, the most important question of all:

Is combating discrimination more important than upholding the rights of individuals to hold certain beliefs..?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

0

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#10

Oct 25, 2016 @ 02:12:19

lol, are you sure ya want my thoughts on this?

I'm not so 'saliant'!

@Jennifer1984 Said

I think we agree on a number of things, and I'm glad to have an exchange with you on those things we differ on. I think you speak a lot of sense and I can see where you are coming from, which is why I would value your opinion on the following:

Bakers Lose Their Appeal Over Gay Cake

Now, there are a number of issues here and I'll make a couple of salient points here for you to consider:

We have anti-discrimination law here in UK and these bakers fell foul of that because they specifically refused to give their services on the grounds of what was to them, a matter of religious belief, but was interpreted in law as a discriminatory act.
+++++Had they made an excuse - for example, if they had said their order books were full and they couldn't take any more orders - there would have been no case to answer. But why should they have to tell a lie in order to avoid prosecution?
+++++Had the aggrieved customer simply accepted the situation and taken his business somewhere else, it wouldn't have come to this. But then, why should he put up with being discriminated against..?
+++++And then we come to, what is in my mind, the most important question of all:
+++++Is combating discrimination more important than upholding the rights of individuals to hold certain beliefs..?
+++++
I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

0

DuLu

CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!

Waverly, Washington

#11

Nov 03, 2016 @ 02:33:17

Whew, finally got back here. Life got really busy and doing some pretty in-depth studying!

As far as your question goes -- "Is combating discrimination more important than upholding the rights of individuals to hold certain beliefs..?"

a) Why is the person acting/taking a stand (or considering it!) now? --
self-seeking, or other seeking? one-person individual? or 'those' persons/those 'individuals'?]

b) Then too, if a decision is made by some to take a stand about the rights of individuals (who happen to be the underdog in 'this' specific situation) ---- consider whether this 'service'/support for others becomes 'self-serving'.

c) How to decide? Critical thinking. Be still. Balance---as in whose 'turn' is it, based on recent events, to receive/achieve recognition/attention? Search your/one's heart!
=====Then, once a 'choice' has been made, 'one' should not flood their minds/thoughts with second-guessing themselves, or beating themselves up psychologically because they should of done it sooner, or maybe it was not a good choice after all. Learn from it, then live in/think about the now, the present.

NOTE: Instead of making this post too long, see my next post for the 'rest' of my story!

************************************************************************

@Jennifer1984 Said

I think we agree on a number of things, and I'm glad to have an exchange with you on those things we differ on. I think you speak a lot of sense and I can see where you are coming from, which is why I would value your opinion on the following:

Bakers Lose Their Appeal Over Gay Cake

As far as your question goes -- "
Is combating discrimination more important than upholding the rights of individuals to hold certain beliefs..?"

Now, there are a number of issues here and I'll make a couple of salient points here for you to consider:

We have anti-discrimination law here in UK and these bakers fell foul of that because they specifically refused to give their services on the grounds of what was to them, a matter of religious belief, but was interpreted in law as a discriminatory act.

Had they made an excuse - for example, if they had said their order books were full and they couldn't take any more orders - there would have been no case to answer. But why should they have to tell a lie in order to avoid prosecution?

Had the aggrieved customer simply accepted the situation and taken his business somewhere else, it wouldn't have come to this. But then, why should he put up with being discriminated against..?

Is combating discrimination more important than upholding the rights of individuals to hold certain beliefs..?

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

0
Edited: November 03, 2016 @ 02:40

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