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Seriously, How is the New Healthcare Law Ever Going to Work or Help?

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Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#1New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 13:59:05
As a small business owner, my wife and I are required under penalty of law to adhere to the Healthcare Law passed by Congress earlier this year. It will cost us quite a bit financially to keep the level of coverage we had last year for our small number of employees. If we want to keep the cost at the prior level, we have to take plans that drastically reduce the benefit levels and our business runs the risk of being "redetermined" as a new applicant and potentially being denied. The next existing option is to decide if we should downsize our employed. We had planned to hire a new person, but that will not happen as our profit margins, inventory asset, property costs, transportation, shipping and delivery, as well as employee costs leave us with a small profit margin and nothing with which to work. Our CPA has advised that we reduce the employee base, of course.

This is the situation most small businesses now find themselves in with the costs and requirements brought on by the new Healthcare Law. In this sense, the new HC law is a jobs killer and a business drag.

Today, I learned that the White House has extended well over 100 waivers regarding the new HC law to mostly large employers who petitioned the White House for them. Many of the groups given waivers to the new law are unions, believe it or not, but the majority are large or associated with large agencies. https://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations/approved_applications_for_waiver.html

So, the large companies and unions with plenty of financing and cadres of lawyers age given a pass on the HC law that is not available to me or any other small business. This law was termed "Universal" and was to apply to everyone. This "waiver" will never be viably extended to our business or other truly small businesses. https://politics.videosift.com/video/White-House-Hands-Out-Healthcare-Waivers

This is one of the reasons that it must be repealed, modified or "waivered" altogether. The smallest businesses least able to afford the HC law are held to it and cannot expand or hire while the largest, more influential, well-funded, well-lawyered/lobbied groups are extended the "perk" by the WH of not having to comply with the same law. Why???
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#2New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 16:36:51
There's a lot of words in here...and they're wordy words. So I'll stick to the one part that I did understand.

As far as I know, this happens all the time, new Healthcare bill or not:

"It will cost us quite a bit financially to keep the level of coverage we had last year for our small number of employees. If we want to keep the cost at the prior level, we have to take plans that drastically reduce the benefit levels"

I'm curious about this part though: 'our business runs the risk of being "redetermined" as a new applicant and potentially being denied'.

Is that something specific to your company? Is it only if you change your coverage? Oh and...did your state have (and if so, did it pass) a referendum to make the employer cover all the insurance costs?
sAeGeSpAeNe On March 20, 2019
Part-time Nidologist





The other Bristol..., Connecti
#3New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 17:32:13
@Junkyard_Jim Said

Today, I learned that the White House has extended well over 100 waivers regarding the new HC law to mostly large employers who petitioned the White House for them. Many of the groups given waivers to the new law are unions, believe it or not, but the majority are large or associated with large agencies. https://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations/approved_applications_for_waiver.html



Take a close look at the list of waivers already provided... to, amongst others, SEIU, and 'countless' Health Insurance Companies, like CIGNA and Aetna!
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#4New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 17:35:41
@sAeGeSpAeNe Said

Take a close look at the list of waivers already provided... to, amongst others, SEIU, and 'countless' Health Insurance Companies, like CIGNA and Aetna!



There's one company on there that has 2 enrollees. 2! It doesn't get much smaller than that....
sAeGeSpAeNe On March 20, 2019
Part-time Nidologist





The other Bristol..., Connecti
#5New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 17:40:43
@someone_else Said

There's one company on there that has 2 enrollees. 2! It doesn't get much smaller than that....



Every outfit should apply for a waiver, then the whole idea can be s***-canned!
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#6New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 21:52:49
@someone_else Said

There's a lot of words in here...and they're wordy words. So I'll stick to the one part that I did understand.

As far as I know, this happens all the time, new Healthcare bill or not:

"It will cost us quite a bit financially to keep the level of coverage we had last year for our small number of employees. If we want to keep the cost at the prior level, we have to take plans that drastically reduce the benefit levels"

I'm curious about this part though: 'our business runs the risk of being "redetermined" as a new applicant and potentially being denied'.

Is that something specific to your company? Is it only if you change your coverage? Oh and...did your state have (and if so, did it pass) a referendum to make the employer cover all the insurance costs?


When you've employed local people who have become friends due to length of time in the business and excellent skills, loyalty to your employees is extremely important. Reducing the HC plan helps neither the staff or the business. The staff now has to go out of pocket to try and pick up supplemental coverage to restore that which was lost. The business owner must consider a viable raise to help the employee with the additional cost. It is nothing but a circle.

In taking a lesser plan, we are required to cancel our existing coverage. If one of the staff has a pre-existing condition (my wife and I included), we run the risk of the health insurance group denying us or telling us we must now pay another additional to cover the pre-existing condition. Another circle, both translating to higher cost or lost benefits. Any insurance company can deny a formerly covered client who cancels an existing policy and attempts to repurchase.

Its a fact of life, and getting proper coverage with a good provider is no longer that easily done. Redetermination comes with canceling one existing policy to opt for another. Many health insurers can drop a client without allowing a renew when a policy is ended in favor of another type of lesser cost/coverage.

It matters little what Pennsylvania requires or allows regarding the coverage. The employee looks at what he/she has now versus what may come. If I require the employee to pick up partial payment, its still part of the circle. The employee has been penalized in a fashion by the new healthcare law, just as the small business owner has.



@someone_else Said

There's one company on there that has 2 enrollees. 2! It doesn't get much smaller than that....


The company with 2 employees is not a company, it is a branch of a much larger national union that received a waiver and it was extended to the smaller union offshoot, as well. The question begs why are unions and health insurance providers being given waivers in the first place?
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#7New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 22:05:08
@Junkyard_Jim Said

When you've employed local people who have become friends due to length of time in the business and excellent skills, loyalty to your employees is extremely important. Reducing the HC plan helps neither the staff or the business. The staff now has to go out of pocket to try and pick up supplemental coverage to restore that which was lost. The business owner must consider a viable raise to help the employee with the additional cost. It is nothing but a circle.

In taking a lesser plan, we are required to cancel our existing coverage. If one of the staff has a pre-existing condition (my wife and I included), we run the risk of the health insurance group denying us or telling us we must now pay another additional to cover the pre-existing condition. Another circle, both translating to higher cost or lost benefits. Any insurance company can deny a formerly covered client who cancels an existing policy and attempts to repurchase.

Its a fact of life, and getting proper coverage with a good provider is no longer that easily done. Redetermination comes with canceling one existing policy to opt for another. Many health insurers can drop a client without allowing a renew when a policy is ended in favor of another type of lesser cost/coverage.

It matters little what Pennsylvania requires or allows regarding the coverage. The employee looks at what he/she has now versus what may come. If I require the employee to pick up partial payment, its still part of the circle. The employee has been penalized in a fashion by the new healthcare law, just as the small business owner has.





The company with 2 employees is not a company, it is a branch of a much larger national union that received a waiver and it was extended to the smaller union offshoot, as well. The question begs why are unions and health insurance providers being given waivers in the first place?


Actually, my point was that the increase in premiums happened semi-regularly before the Healthcare bill. There's no way to just adjust your coverage plan? I've never dealt with health insurance so I don't know, I'm not trying to be a smartass.
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#8New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:06:14
@someone_else Said

Actually, my point was that the increase in premiums happened semi-regularly before the Healthcare bill. There's no way to just adjust your coverage plan? I've never dealt with health insurance so I don't know, I'm not trying to be a smartass.



Didn't think you were. When I was employed by my career operation, I received my healthcare from that employer, also. I found I didn't think much about it, to be honest.

Now, though, I'm watching HC rates go up and this year was much steeper than anytime in the past. My agent advised us that the company he represents, and most others, are intending heavy increases through 2014 to prepare for the potential heavy cost the companies will incur at that time versus what they will be permitted to charge. He opined that more than half the healthcare providers in business now will not be by 2017.

I can adjust the coverage plan, but, as I noted, it would require that I provide less benefits to good staff to just be at the same payment level. Its not worth the tradeoff in having good people elect to go elsewhere or to look towards me as being disloyal to them. For now, I'll take the trade off in our profit base. Christmas bonuses for 2011 will be less and we will not hire the additional person we could use.

My point in all this is not what we are doing personally for our business and employees. Rather, it is what the HC law is doing to ALL of small business while the government that passed the "universal" HC law is busy handing out waivers to it to healthcare insurance providers and to large union operations. My question is why is this being held and shoved down the throats of small business owners while WH bureaucrats are letting larger, better funded companies and unions operate with a waiver so they are not required to do what the rest of us are?
fitzyp On December 23, 2014




Auckland, New Zealand
#9New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:09:09
Every time I hear about the complications of the Healthcare reform I just think: Yeah you guys should have got universal healthcare.
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#10New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:13:22
@fitzyp Said

Every time I hear about the complications of the Healthcare reform I just think: Yeah you guys should have got universal healthcare.


At the risk of being dense, I don't follow your post.
fitzyp On December 23, 2014




Auckland, New Zealand
#11New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:22:07
@Junkyard_Jim Said

At the risk of being dense, I don't follow your post.


Well there have been many threads like this one questioning the feasibility of the healthcare reform saying that it is unmanageable in one way or another. It makes me just think: all these complications could be prevented with universal healthcare.
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#12New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:29:04
@fitzyp Said

Well there have been many threads like this one questioning the feasibility of the healthcare reform saying that it is unmanageable in one way or another. It makes me just think: all these complications could be prevented with universal healthcare.


We're beginning to just see the unintended consequences of a massive healthcare bill loaded with pork and earmarks with which our elected reps and senators did not bother to become familiar.

Our own House of Representatives Speaker (2nd in line to the Presidency) stated "we have to pass the bill before you can see what's in it". Sounded comical at the time, now its turning out to be potentially damaging to US business, the day to day economy and to the people it was intended to help.

We obviously need reform and people unable to afford insurance must be assured of medical assistance. Somehow this seems only to be working for the wealthy and well-connected, again.
LuckyCharms On June 19, 2019
Magically Delicious





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#13New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:31:35
Every year I have been working - over 15 now - insurance benefits have always decreased in quality and increased in price. There has been no exception to that.

At the office I currently work at, it's the same deal. Last year we gave the crew the option of pitching in to pay for the increase for the same level of coverage or going for the lowered coverage. They opted to cover the difference. I don't know if they will again this year.

Health care costs have been on an insane sky rocket for years now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the health care bill. There's only a few things in it that are actually good in my estimation.

In my opinion, the only thing that is going to get health care costs in line is to actually quit making it a business. Profiteering off of illness, to me, is morally wrong. Make a living, groovy. Driving people into bankruptcy so that the guys at the top can get that second, third or fourth vacation home is not proper.
Junkyard_Jim On August 30, 2011

Deleted



Norristown, Pennsylvania
#14New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:37:26
@LuckyCharms Said

Every year I have been working - over 15 now - insurance benefits have always decreased in quality and increased in price. There has been no exception to that.

At the office I currently work at, it's the same deal. Last year we gave the crew the option of pitching in to pay for the increase for the same level of coverage or going for the lowered coverage. They opted to cover the difference. I don't know if they will again this year.

Health care costs have been on an insane sky rocket for years now. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the health care bill. There's only a few things in it that are actually good in my estimation.

In my opinion, the only thing that is going to get health care costs in line is to actually quit making it a business. Profiteering off of illness, to me, is morally wrong. Make a living, groovy. Driving people into bankruptcy so that the guys at the top can get that second, third or fourth vacation home is not proper.


The more people you can put into a HC plan, the better the rate per person. With large operations, the increases per person are not as drastic as those for single payers and for small businesses which cannot qualify for the rates of the larger companies. That's the problem we are experiencing, and have, as you noted, for years.

This year, however, the increase was particularly steep, almost $2K per person on the plan and the company stated we could expect at least those kinds of increases annually for the foreseeable future. When a small business has less than 10 full-time employees and is working on a close-ratio profit base, it can devastate a business. Most small businesses are in this category so its hard to draw the parallel to the company in which you work.
LuckyCharms On June 19, 2019
Magically Delicious





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#15New Post! Nov 15, 2010 @ 23:41:07
@Junkyard_Jim Said

The more people you can put into a HC plan, the better the rate per person. With large operations, the increases per person are not as drastic as those for single payers and for small businesses which cannot qualify for the rates of the larger companies. That's the problem we are experiencing, and have, as you noted, for years.

This year, however, the increase was particularly steep, almost $2K per person on the plan and the company stated we could expect at least those kinds of increases annually for the foreseeable future. When a small business has less than 10 full-time employees and is working on a close-ratio profit base, it can devastate a business. Most small businesses are in this category so its hard to draw the parallel to the company in which you work.



Um, my company including the owners has only 15 people. I've never worked for a large company. I prefer smaller ones.

It's tough and it sucks. We go through an agent though and he puts together our options after discussing things with the owners. Then they get together and make the decision.
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