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Sadly, This Is What Our Once Great Democracy Is Coming To

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gakINGKONG On July 15, 2021




, Florida
#46New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 21:41:31
@shadowen Said

Funny how the poor pommy sheila with a huge chip on each shoulder ignores posts that call out her misinformation. No surprise there though.



gakINGKONG On July 15, 2021




, Florida
#47New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 21:45:10
I'd like to say thanks to my international partners for giving me the chance to hear slang from other countries

Okker? That's a first.

I thank you. My mother thanks you. And God. And Jesus who died on the cross for my sins.

And I promise to never swear again.
Leon On July 14, 2021




San Diego, California
#48New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 22:14:33
Without taking sides here on the actual merits of the measure, it seems to me that, if it is legal and doable, this probably should be voted on again, given that the population there has shifted on the idea, according to polls. It is after all supposed to be a populist movement.
bob_the_fisherman On November 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#49New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 22:34:24
@Jennifer1984 Said

I'd read the above but frankly, I can't be arsed. From anybody else on this forum there might be something worth reading, but not you.

You're clearly spamming the thread for the sake of disrupting it. Typical Okker mentality.

Meanwhile, on the Brexit front, this very day Theresa May has announced the process by which Brexit may be delayed, and has now accepted that she may have to go back to Brussels to request an extension.

In the meantime, the leader of the opposition has now withdrawn his opposition to a second referendum. That doesn't necessarily mean there will be one, but without this happening there certainly wouldn't have been, so the effect of Corbyn's change of position is to make it more possible.

There will be a major demonstration in early March for a people's vote which is expected to gather support from MP's for second referendum. In the event that it does go to a vote in Parliament........ and that is becoming more likely by the day.

Of course I expect the Okker to pooh-pooh all this and tell me that I don't even know what's going on in my own country.... at the very moment I'm watching all these things being announced on the six o clock news.

I expect more spam on this subject from the whingeing Aussie Pom hater.


Yep, it does seem as though May and her cronies will seek to ignore the will of the people. I believe this was predicted by many people prior to the vote. Still, there is of reason why you or anyone else should be concerned at the death of democracy.
bob_the_fisherman On November 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#50New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 22:39:25
@Leon Said

Without taking sides here on the actual merits of the measure, it seems to me that, if it is legal and doable, this probably should be voted on again, given that the population there has shifted on the idea, according to polls. It is after all supposed to be a populist movement.


That is not how democracy works. The people voted. The people decided they wanted out for a lot of reasons. Some want their sovereignty back. Some want to limit migration. Some want fishing rights restored. It is not up to the political class to do all they can to overturn the democratic will of the people by being incompetent, making the worst possible deals, using scare tactics and propaganda etc., to blackmail the people in throwing away their democratic will. Why reward anti leave politicians for trying to punish the people for deciding they want out?
Leon On July 14, 2021




San Diego, California
#51New Post! Feb 26, 2019 @ 22:56:16
@bob_the_fisherman Said

That is not how democracy works. The people voted. The people decided they wanted out for a lot of reasons. Some want their sovereignty back. Some want to limit migration. Some want fishing rights restored. It is not up to the political class to do all they can to overturn the democratic will of the people by being incompetent, making the worst possible deals, using scare tactics and propaganda etc., to blackmail the people in throwing away their democratic will. Why reward anti leave politicians for trying to punish the people for deciding they want out?


I suppose the other side could say the same thing in terms of propaganda and promises, but fair enough. I don’t know much about the issue to really comment further. It just seemed to me that something of this magnitude should do everything it can to make sure the public’s opinion remains respected, even if it changes or if it means having to educate further.
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#52New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 02:15:38
@bob_the_fisherman Said

That is not how democracy works. The people voted. The people decided they wanted out for a lot of reasons. Some want their sovereignty back. Some want to limit migration. Some want fishing rights restored. It is not up to the political class to do all they can to overturn the democratic will of the people by being incompetent, making the worst possible deals, using scare tactics and propaganda etc., to blackmail the people in throwing away their democratic will. Why reward anti leave politicians for trying to punish the people for deciding they want out?



When was it ever anti-democratic to give people a vote...?

I can argue that the people also voted in 2015 for a government and under Parliamentary rules that government is fixed for 5 years, and yet when Theresa May decided in 2017 - only two years into that Parliament - that the opinion polls were in her favour, she dissolved Parliament and called another general election.

That ended in disaster which is one of the reasons we are where we are now.

I don't hear any of the Brexiters here saying that calling a general election when they think it suits them is anti-democratic. Convenient or what...?

If we can have a general election only two years into a 5 year fixed term Parliament, then why not another referendum when it is obvious that the situation that has developed is nothing like that which the people thought they were voting for..?

In truth, Brexiters don't really care for democracy, that's just a word they use to justify clinging to a criminally obtained barely-past-the-post result based on lies, corruption and false promises.

And isn't it funny how the Brexiters conveniently overlook the criminal activity of the Leave campaign. Is it democratic to proceed on an ADVISORY referendum (the 2016 vote was never legally binding) when there is proven criminality involved and further alleged criminality yet to be tried in court.

And isn't it funny how the Brexiters comveniently overlook the lies and disinformation of the leave campaign.... and their use of personal data illegally obtained by Cambridge Analytica in order to target voters.

And isn't it funny how the Brexiters conveniently overlook the opinion of a multitude of experts in their field, the advice of the Governer of the Bank of England and all the indicators being made by firms like Nissan, Honda and others who are packing up their business in Britain and moving to Europe or back to the Far East.

And isn't it funny how the Brexiters conveniently overlook the fact that the referendum was only ADVISORY. At no point was it ever legally binding. By the same token there is no legal bar to a second referendum.

Yes, Leave won the first time around, but we now know that the result would have been annulled but for a legal technicality. Does that not place a moral obligation upon the government to put that corrupted vote back to the people...?

And one more point.... I live in a fishing town and a farming county. The fishermen and farmers of Cornwall who voted for Brexit have now seen how their livelihoods are going to be affected and are overwhelmingly saying that given a second vote they would change their minds.

The only reason Brexiters oppose a second vote is because they are scared of losing it. If they thought they would win.... and possibly even increase their majority they'd jump at it like a shot.

Just like Theresa May tried to do in 2017.


Final word from a friend of mine who recently posted a very accurate observation on an LGBT site I also frequent. She said:

Brexit has managed to do something the Nazis, the IRA or the 7/7 bombers failed to achieve. It's turned the British people against each other.


And that's criminal.
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#53New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 05:09:23
How anybody would have voted leave if they had known it would come to this is incomprehensible:

HM Government - Implications For Trade And Business In Respect of a No Deal Exit From the EU on 29 March



And If You Can't Focus On the Actual Document Long Enough To Understand It........
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#54New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 09:22:11
@Jennifer1984 Said

And isn't it funny how the Brexiters conveniently overlook the opinion of a multitude of experts in their field, the advice of the Governer of the Bank of England


These are the same 'experts' who failed to predict the 2008 financial crisis. The same 'experts' who predicted a possible recession, high unemployment and inflation etc etc etc the moment the UK decided to leave the EU. Only it hasn't happened. In 2017 the BoE admitted their economic predictions re a successful leave campaign were wrong...but only in the timing. They then simply said that all the doom and gloom would hit the UK in 2018...only once again it didnt. Infact, in 2018 the UK economy grew at the same rate as the German economy. Then only a few weeks ago Carney said:

"In many respects, Brexit is the first test of the new global order. It could prove the acid test of whether a way can be found to broaden the benefits of openness, while enhancing democratic accountability… [through] a better balance of local and supranational authorities." He went on to say in effect that a post Brexit economy could be one that is fairer, more open and more robust than it would be within the EU.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#55New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 09:35:19
@Jennifer1984 Said

Brexit has managed to do something the Nazis, the IRA or the 7/7 bombers failed to achieve. It's turned the British people against each other.

And that's criminal.


Of course it's criminal that anyone dare to have a view that is at odds with the remain supporters. How dare those nasty, ignorant, lying, extreme right wing imperialist neo nazis express an opinion that the kind, tolerant, reasonable, caring, objective remain supporters disagree with. It's outrageous that a democracy should have a situation where not everyone agrees. I'm sure this sort of criminal behaviour wouldn't happen in countries like the DPRK.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#56New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 09:44:15
Note. The latest published GDP growth rates are as follows:

UK - 1.3%
France - 0.9%
Germany - 0.6%
Italy - 0.1%

Switzerland - 2.4%
Norway - 1.7%

Considering how much financial markets, companies and investors etc hate uncertainty the UK is doing quite well.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#57New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 09:47:03
Just on trade deals...
China makes up 9.6% of EU exports whilst it accounts for 20.1% of imports.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#58New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 09:52:54
@Leon Said

having to educate further.


The problem is that all too often education becomes indoctrination.
DiscordTiger On May 25, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#59New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 20:00:42
@Jennifer1984 Said

How anybody would have voted leave if they had known it would come to this is incomprehensible:




I'll admit to not knowing a lot about Brexit, other than it sounds like a dumsterfire in the making....

but many people on our side of the pond vote against their interests all the time. I don't get it either.
bob_the_fisherman On November 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#60New Post! Feb 27, 2019 @ 22:05:39
@Jennifer1984 Said

When was it ever anti-democratic to give people a vote...?


When you ask people to vote again because you don't like the result of their first effort.
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